BL 705 in a P/P

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 23 Sep 2004 6:14 am

I recently picked up a P/P with a 705 pickup , and it sounds really brite ....It's clear as a bell, but seems a little lacking in mid's and low's....Being as brite as it is, I thought that it would really ring out the pinch harmonic's ...No dice !!...Then I thought maybe it was the pre or the amp, so I went to an all tube setup in my studio, and still couldn't coax much of any harmonic's out of this pickup ... Is this a fairly good description of how the 705 is suppose to sound ?... I'd really like to hear from guys who have played this pickup for a while ... I know if I go to a single coil like a Wallace Truetone, the harmonic's jump out of a P/P ..... Maybe somethng is wrong with the pickup, or something wrong with me ?...Thanks to all ....Jim

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 23 Sep 2004 6:45 am

Jim, although I haven't tried that setup, I have spoken to a few that say the 705 was either too thin or too bright for thier p/p's. I use 705's on my old MSA and they sound nice. They do tend to have a cleaner high end with a bit of punch. In the event you look to unload that pickup, plese let me know. Also, it may be a 605 or an 805. They look the same but have different dc ohm readings. I found that the 805's are too thin sounding for my taste.
Dave[This message was edited by David Higginbotham on 23 September 2004 at 07:48 AM.]

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 23 Sep 2004 12:27 pm

I get very, very clear harmonics with my 705 pickups in my Franklins. At least one of Paul Franklin Jr.'s main recording guitars has 705, and his harmonics are as clear as they get.

I found the 705s to be no brighter than the single coil Franklin pickups they replaced.

Might be a bad pickup or wiring job.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 23 Sep 2004 3:45 pm

What kind of amp are you using?

Keeping in mind that you're probably getting the sound the Emmons is famous for, and was designed for, (clear, bright highs, thin mid-range, and not a lot of lows), you should still be able to get a decent amount of "body", even though the OLD 705 is not nearly as full as some later designs. (30 years ago, no one but Curly was interested in "full sounds".)

I suggest you drop the mids, turn the bass wide open, and then set your treble to about 1/3 of it's range to get some "body" into your sound. Once you have that fat-sounding body, it's usually a simple matter to get a good sound. Back off the bass if necessary (but not too much), and then raise the mids very slowly until you find your desired sound.

I occasionally surprise some players by getting sounds out of their equipment in 2 minutes that they haven't been able to find in 10 years! Once, a player complained of "no guts" in his sound (he was running both the bass and the volume at "3"). When I backed down his mids, and reset the volume to "10" and the bass to "8", and played a few licks, his jaw dropped to the floor! (On most amps, you need power to get good tone.) He asked me..."How'd you get it to sound that good?" I showed him the settings, and then said..."Never be afraid to use what's there!"

Turns out he had never turned any knob over "5" for fear he'd "burn the thing up".

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 25 Sep 2004 2:58 am

Donny, a lot of steelers should read what you have just said. I marvel at the posts which discuss tone. I see guys buying push/pull guitars, changing pickups,strings,picks, etc. The tone is dependent on many variables,a common one being the acoustics of the location you are playing in. This is the reason for EQ controls on amplifiers. I believe you can get a decent sound from most any guitar by adjusting the amp. But.... the amp must be capable of a fairly wide adjustment range.
I think A Nashville 400 amp, for example, will sound good with any steel guitar out there. I have seen posts asking for amp settings. The settings will be different in different environments. If this were not so, the amp manufacturer would not put variable controls on the amp. I am not going to get into discussing picking technique,tube preamps and such. These are other issues entirely, which reflect personal taste.
Donny, thanks for all of your fine posts on the forum. I have been around music and musicians for many years (Have also been well educated in electronics)and I agree with you almost 100% of the time......JD

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 25 Sep 2004 6:07 am

Donny and other folks,
Thanks for the replies....I have a TON of different Amp/preamp Amplifier, etc gear both tube and solid state...I also have a studio I'm working on to enlarge the one I already have .. I have various parametric EQ's, Graphic EQ's, and tone shapers galour ....I also have 3 P/P's in my home with this one being the 3rd....The tone DOES have body to it like a P/P, and has the thinner Mids, but the high's do not sound as sweet as a single coil does, and the harmonics that I get from my other steel's is not there ....The tone is very good and no hum, but not a lot of character ( Harmonic's and overtones )
I'm going to put a Truetone in there to see what it sounds like ....If I get the harmonic's back, I'll know it was the pickup....If I don't , I'll know it's the steel guitar .....I do appreciate everyone's idea's and opinion's, and Donny , I do keep an eye on your postings... You seem like a very knowlegable person in this area, and I do appreciate your knowlege....Sincerely, Jim

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 25 Sep 2004 6:52 am

When I first started on PSG I was so afraid of the thing that I would tickle the strings, back off the volume-pedal, and got a correspondingly appalling tone.

That was thirty years ago, and it took a while for me to appreciate that the best tone comes when I open everything up and play with confidence, 'time' and authority.

Whenever I attend a steel show and watch the Masters play I have this lesson reinforced.

RR

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 25 Sep 2004 9:43 am

Just to throw a wrench into the discussion or at least one more thing to check out---can you confirm that it is an honest 705? Should have a chrome case as opposed to black plastic. I don't know the quality or tonal characteristics of the faux 705's but let's be sure you are comparing your experience of an apple with other people's experience of an apple. (Then wipe the apple juice off your strings and try the Truetone.)

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 25 Sep 2004 9:50 am

Just to clarify these pickups, here is a previous post by John Fabian. There were other "imitation" 705's with the twin blades but they were housed in a black case.
Dave

"These are pickups were made by a California company run by his EX-partner not by Bill Lawrence who made the silver housed pickups.
Our experience with the reliability of these pickups has not been any where near as good as the silver housed ones.
To find out what model pickup you have, measure the DC Resistance and compare it to the numbers below."

705 - approximately 18K-21K Ohms, 15H inductance
805 - approximately 26K Ohms, 21H inductance
605 - approximately 15K Ohms, 11H inductance
505 - approximately 12K Ohms, 7.5H inductance

John Fabian

Chris Collins · Post by **Chris Collins** » 25 Sep 2004 2:13 pm

Have you considered the position of the pick-up in relation to the strings? It maybe too close to the strings. I had a similar problem one time and just lowering the pick-up slightly made a world of difference. There is a article about this somewhere in the "ask Bud" section of the carter web site I think.

Good lick

Chris

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 25 Sep 2004 2:31 pm

It's an official BL 705 with the chrome surround.....It's metered at 19.5k , and the adjustment is as low as it will go ....It just get's briter, and more brash sounding when I adjust it any higher ... It's not a terrible tone at all, just brite with a lack of harmonic's....I can see how the 710 is a derivitive of this pickup ... Very similar in nature at least to my ear's.....I would say that either the 705 or the 710 would make great candidates for the hearing impaired to say the least ... I remember having a 710 in my Sierra, and that thing peeled paint !!....Thanks again to all .... Jim

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 25 Sep 2004 9:56 pm

I put 705's in my Carter and found them rather flat sounding. Put the TW's back in and the nice "ring" was back.

bob