Fender Steel King Amp

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 6 Aug 2004 10:53 am

Sam,

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to post here on the Forum. It's always nice to hear from individuals that are involved in the manufacturing process of the gear we use, including pedals (Hilton), Steels (Carter, Mullen) and amps (Peavey). Hopefully we will see you around these parts often, being able to provide info, advice and service regarding the new Fender amps!

I was extremely....and I mean EXTREMELY...excited when the Fender Custom Twin 15" was announced back at the beginning of the year, and ordered one immediately. My experience was so sour with TWO of these amps (see here) that I have a very skeptical eye pointed at the Steel King.

I did contact someone at Fender before regarding my problems with the Custom Twin, and had a question of whether any pedal steels were even used during its testing....and the answer I received spoke of various testing "equipment" that was used that reproduced many sounds....that kind of summed it up for me.

My guess is that the Custom Twin 15" is really just a modded '65 Twin, accomodating a 15" speaker, with no real change to the pre-amp, power amp, cabinet design, etc???

As to the particulars of the King, what design mods does it have versus your regular electric guitar SS amps? Better cabinet materials/design? Has the amp been tested with BOTH E9 AND C6 tunings, at LOUD stage volumes? The reason this is important is not just whether the speaker can handle it....but can the baffle board and cabinet handle it without so much as making a peep? I've owned every Peavey steel amp (save for the S500) and the constuction of each of them was impeccable....never a squeak or rattle when a booming low note was played.

I am a Fender user and have been for many years. My 6-string axe of choice is a Strat, and for tone and reverb, Fender is IT. But I need an amp that can handle the demanding situations I face every time I play live....I need an amp that will be QUIET.

Any information you can provide on this amp's testing, materials, etc. would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks again for your input!

Joe Alterio
'03 Zum S-10 4/5, '77 Peavey Session 400

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 6 Aug 2004 11:56 am

Joe,

I'm going to be of no help with the type of materials used (Sam Marshall is the man for that), but I can tell you a little about at least part of the testing process. Besides field testing this amp personally (live, in the studio and at Fender), I also created Fender a CD with about a dozen styles, E9th and C6th, high, middle and low range on both tunings. They have a room in the Scottsdale facility they call the bunker and that CD was routed through these amps at high volumes for weeks and weeks non-stop.

Mike www.mikeandt.com
[This message was edited by Miguel e Smith on 06 August 2004 at 01:55 PM.]

Greg Sullivan · Post by **Greg Sullivan** » 6 Aug 2004 4:15 pm

If Jody was at liberty to offer his comments
I'm certain that his input would be pro Fender. But Jody Carver shoots from the hip and regardless of his past ties with Fender will speak his piece if he were able.

Why not wait for a few comments from Jody who
has been there since the beginning and add his comments pro or con to this discussion.

To date Fender in my opinion has ignored the steel guitar world and I have to see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears to give my own opinions.

According to Jody,Peavey has been by far and large steel guitar conscience and its hard according to Jody to find another Mike Brown
of Peavey who walks in the same footprints of
Don Randall who was the marketing machine behind Mr.Fender.

Jody is seeing his wife battle for her life as I write this. He has not been on the computer for a few days,why not wait until Jody can put his opinions in to play.

Or has Fender of today not heard of Jody? or do they not value his opinion? In my opinion
Jody has more savvy than those in Fender marketing and prodcuct knowledge that most of the present day Fender company.

They (Fender) own the name but thats about it
Let them prove to the steel guitar community
that actions speak louder than words.

Jody is a dedicated Fender man but he will not bring any company down regardless. He thinks highly of Peavey and wondered why Fender took this long hiatus from the steel guitar world.

Sorry for the speech, but I learned from the master. Does Fender recognize Jody as being a pioneer? Someone from Fender speak up. How about those greats who made history with making Fender the leaders in the amplifier business back then and what happened since?

Look at your 54 catalogue those of you at Fender and see those who pioneered your now Fender.

Greg Sullivan.

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 6 Aug 2004 7:16 pm

Sam Marshall,
Welcome aboard and thank you for the information. It's about time Fender got into the steel amp bizness! We need more choices that the average guy can afford. Best of luck. If Fender can be a success in this market, they will surely have to earn it. I don't believe any musician is more particular about an amp than a steel player, as you well know.

------------------
Doug Earnest
The only Zum Keyless U12, Fender Cyber Twin

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 6 Aug 2004 7:45 pm

LOVE IT!!!

Jeff Hogsten · Post by **Jeff Hogsten** » 6 Aug 2004 7:55 pm

Hello Sam,

welcome, as a steel player and a former music store owner and manager and tele player I love fender amps and never had a problem getting one worked on because I never have had to have one worked on and Ive used them for guitar for 30 years but never for steel. I have leaned toward the old evans hybrid 300 fet 500 not the lv and some of the old sho bud amps by Evans and Cain as the best steel amps Ive played, however if you ever had a problem you were stuck so Ive alway used peavey not saying they were a comprimise, Ive had some that sound great like the vegas but I just hear a little something on those amps I metioned. I just wonder if when you designed the amp did you try to copy anything like a old sho bud evans or standel or come up with something totaly new. Also bring back the princeton reverb best amp fender ever made. again thanks for making yourself available

Jeff[This message was edited by Jeff Hogsten on 07 August 2004 at 03:58 AM.]

Post by **Joey Ace** » 6 Aug 2004 11:12 pm

Sam,
Thanks for the info on yourself and the project.
I look forward to your future posts. It's great to have the designers here to share information.

Greg,
Jody left Fender 30 years ago. Your comments are disrespectful to Sam who is obviously a supporter of Steel Guitar, and helping Fender to produce products with us in mind.

Greg Sullivan · Post by **Greg Sullivan** » 7 Aug 2004 5:59 am

I am in trouble now for my comments.But regarding the time frame here that Jody left Fender back in 75 is not the issue. He was and is in my opinion one of the most important factors in the success story of Fender.

Leo Fender left in 65 does that make Leo Fender obsolete?. I will no longer cross your
path. The word dis-respect is not appropriate
here,many things I have read on this steel forum have been disrespectful. You have your opinions and I have mine.

I wish Fender the best of luck with their new project and praise those people who are striving to make the products for steel guitarists. I am not running Fender down. Calm down.I own a vintage Tweed Twin and a Dual neck Fender so you see,I am a Fender fan as well and more than many others.

I am suprised that if you had an issue with me regarding my opinions that you could have e mailed me off this Forum.

Greg Sullivan.

I promise not to comment any further. I have pride and I have a friend who I beleive in and admire. Thanks.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 7 Aug 2004 6:04 am

Hi Sam - Welcome to this Great Forum

just like Mike Brown does for Peavey
it's great to have you here and know that someone from Fender can be here w: us Fender heads and be of good help and assistance.
i actually use a Peavey Nash 1000 and am very satisfied w: it -
i was a Fender user for many years on guitbox but chose Peavey for Steel.
in all impartiality, i will be glad to try a Steel King

George Macdonald · Post by **George Macdonald** » 7 Aug 2004 6:08 am

The new Fender Steel King appears to have only one input. Is there a provision to use a C.D. player with it for rhythm tracks?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 7 Aug 2004 6:12 am

Greg,
I know you are suffering the pain our friends the Carvers are going thru at this time. I will also stay on the topic of this post.
Best regards,
Joey

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 7 Aug 2004 6:21 am

Oops, was preaching to the choir. Sorry.
Welcome Sam!![This message was edited by Rex Thomas on 07 August 2004 at 07:22 AM.]

Greg Sullivan · Post by **Greg Sullivan** » 7 Aug 2004 5:12 pm

Joey Ace.

I was out of order with my comments and I want to publicly apologize if I caused you any discomfort.

Sorry.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Aug 2004 6:19 pm

Although I'm a Peavey Guy, I welcome Sam.

It takes an above ordinary guy to represent and stand behind a product here.

For my part, this is the crash dummie garage. I've tried my best to drive every piece of equipment I've owned into the ground. Only my Pro III and peavey amps have survived. Two Capacitors and one black widder speaker in 24 years owning two and now three Peavey amps.

If like Mr Mike Brown, you can endure the "disrespect" of us opinionated, habit steeped, and perhaps idiosyncratic pedal steel players, and you will be known far and wide as Mr Brown.

Kind of problematic those new Fenders being made where they are, but I've been in Portland long before they were building them in the old Sunn factory here.

Welcome.

Any disrespect is purely part of my nature.

I play music out of sheer spite to begin with.

Eric West

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 7 Aug 2004 7:26 pm

two things
I like "made in USA" and email,so I can ask a question if I have to.

Db

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 7 Aug 2004 7:50 pm

I like "made in USA"

Umm, aren't you the one pushing the European-made Promat Emmons push-pull clone?

Post by **Joey Ace** » 7 Aug 2004 11:49 pm

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 8 Aug 2004 5:19 am

aren't you the one pushing the European-made Promat Emmons push-pull clone?

That's not a completely accurate comparison since the Promat guitar is the ONLY available way for a push-pull fanatic to get a new push-pull since none are made in the U.S. Amps are different since there are a number of brands, including Peavey, that are made in the U.S.

------------------
Jeff's Jazz

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 8 Aug 2004 3:29 pm

thanks Jeff,
that is correct.The Promat guitars are (as far as I know) only push pull guitars that I could order new.And plus,they sound better than Emmons push pull anyway.(if you don`t believe me ask Nick Reed,Gary Sill or maybe Bobbe Seymour THE guru of the all push pulls),but one thing I have to explain again (and again and again) I`m not pushing (or pulling

) nothing here.I bought my guitar and tought it would be interesting for other guys to know about it.I can personaly care or less how many Promats get sold. As of right now Promat company is building 5 guitars for US and European market.And that is almost too many because everything is custom bild by hand and materials they are made of are not easy to find (ex. 20-30 year old naturaly aged maple or Procon metal for changers or special thickness ordered mica and so on).I love my guitar and wouldn`t play anything else.As a trade of for the tone you get a guitar that is as heavy as old MSA`s.But I`ll carry anything just to get the tone I want.However,I liked it so much that have on order another Promat 8+4,fat back,mahagony with natural maple top and TT Jerry Walace 16.5 Kohm pick ups.Can`t wait to get it too.
Sincerely
Db

Sam Marshall · Post by **Sam Marshall** » 9 Aug 2004 7:45 am

Thanks for your kind responses. First, I would like to admit that I am also quite impressed with the level of service Mike has provided this Forum. I have read many of his posting over the years in hopes of learning more about Peavey. One of the main things I have learned is that Mike Brown is a real pro!

During its development, we tested the Steel-King with a D-10 Sho-bud and my own Mullen U-12. I played "Hold It" many times through this amp. My arrangement is from a Tommy Roots video and features plenty of action on those low strings. The amp has also seen a bari guitar (Fender SubSonic),a bass, and several guitars played through it.

I feel the amp is very well suited for guitar. At the NAMM show in Nashville, the Steel-King was used to demo Gretsch and Benedetto guitars. I love to play a Tele and Jaguar through it.

As you may know, Mike Smith has been a big help on making sure this amp is "steel player approved." He first started working with me during the breadboard phase; this is when the amp was made of chunks of existing amps with a rats nest of wires and cables for interconnection. Later, within the first few days of a real working prototype, I took the Steel-King to Mike's studio and he gave it a workout - all over the spectrum with a little extra emphasis on the low end. Using the balanced(XLR)line out, he recorded a bunch of things for a "steel guitar test CD." Later on, he used the amp on his local gigs for a week or so. Everytime, his response was quite encouraging. He & T are great people and great performers!

This amp was also "beta-tested" at the SWSGA spring jam in Apache Junction, AZ. Fred Justice and others made comments that made me go and work on the reverb some more. I had the pleasure of hearing young Jonathan for the first time then - his talent is STUNNING!!!

As Mike mentioned, we have a room out back of R&D we call the "Kaboom Room." We do extended life testing there. We ran our new speaker much harder than we would ever expect a steel player to do and are quite satisfied with its reliability. We used Mike's CD mentioned above. The CD player drove the effects loop in, so the Steel-King power amp, speaker, and cabinet were tested. Of course, we have also performed a lot of our testing with more traditional electronics test gear.

The cabinet is constructed of plywood. The electronics are actually more akin to a bass amp than a guitar amp. You should be able to find the Steel-King's schematic on www.fender.com in the Mr. Gearhead section of our website. If it is not there right now, it will be soon.

There is not a CD input, but a mixer and the effects loop could work for this. Mike Smith's setup requires similar patching.

Another question regards the number of inputs. Yes, there is only one. There is a switch next to the input that provides a 10dB reduction in preamp amplification. This provides headroom for those of you with hot pickups.

Also, I have seen questions regarding the limiter switch. This limiter is not a compressor to protect the power amp. The Steel-King will allow its user to push the power amp into distortion. We have designed it to cilp gracefully, however. When activated, the Steel-King's limiter softly clips the input waveform to the power amp in an assymetric manner akin to a tube. You will only notice its operation near full power. To see it work, push the amplifier so the power amp clip light comes on hard, then engage the limiter. You should see the power amp clip light illuminate far less. The resulting distortion should sound more palatable.

The amp's weight is 66 lbs including casters, cover, IEC power cord and footswitch. We have provided velcro straps in the back of the cabinet to secure your footswitch and power cord during transport.

More later....

Best Regards,
Sam

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 9 Aug 2004 8:11 am

Sam,
I am very pleased to hear that the cabinet is plywood as opposed to particle board. Now if we can get the tilt-back legs as standard equipment.....
Thanks

------------------
Doug Earnest
The only Zum Keyless U12, Fender Cyber Twin

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 9 Aug 2004 10:20 am

Sam,

Thanks for the very informative post.....MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

Joe

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 9 Aug 2004 12:18 pm

...and DITTO as to what my fellow Hoosier steeler friend said! Thanx, Sam!
How's that Zum, Joe!?

Boo Bernstein · Post by **Boo Bernstein** » 9 Aug 2004 1:26 pm

Just a quick question: what does the EQ tilt knob do? Does it shift the focus of the frequency response? Thanks, Boo

Sam Marshall · Post by **Sam Marshall** » 9 Aug 2004 1:46 pm

The EQ Tilt control is quite similar to an old single-knob tone control. It works similar to a lever. Clockwise from center, it raises the highs and cuts the lows by equal amounts from its flat setting (12:00). Counter-clockwise from center, it raises the lows and cuts the highs.

The "fulcrum" of this control is around 400 Hz. At this frequency, there is little to no boost or cut over the range of the control.

I should mention that all EQ controls are flat (no cut or boost) at 12:00. We have provided a detent on these controls at 12:00 to provide an easy starting point for tuning in your tone. We have done our best to voice the amp so it sounds good when all the EQ controls (EQ tilt, Treble, Bass & Mid Level) are set at 12:00.

I have seen Buddy Emmons post his settings here on the SGF. By coincedence, I find that my settings are quite similar to his.

Regards,
Sam Marshall