Mic for Minidisc Recording

Steve Matlock · Post by **Steve Matlock** » 28 Aug 2004 2:08 pm

I'm in the market for a good mic to use when recording live with a Sony minidisc recorder. What works well? I would especially like to capture a decent bass response. Any idea's?

Steve

Al Sato · Post by **Al Sato** » 28 Aug 2004 2:47 pm

How much do you want to spend on it? There are mics in all ranges that work well with a minidisc. I have one (it's a set of binaural microphones, you can wear one on each side of you head close to your ears if you wear glasses or a hat) from Core Sound. It wasn't cheap but it is worlds better than the $70 Sony stereo mic I started with. www.core-sound.com has them. They also carry a lower-cost version and a high-end version. The ones I have are the standard ones, and I paid a little over $200. You might be able to find something that works for you for less, but once I heard the results with these I didn't feel like going through a bunch of less-expensive ones to see if I could settle for something less expensive. It would probably have cost me more in the long run.

P.S. they are binaural but you don't really have to wear them on your head. Just put them approximately the distance of the width of a head apart! I mount them to a music stand or something.[This message was edited by Al Sato on 28 August 2004 at 03:48 PM.]

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 28 Aug 2004 7:54 pm

There are some at MiniDisco that all work great for MD applications....you can find a nice mono one for around $30 that works great.

Hope this helps...

Joe

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 28 Aug 2004 10:36 pm

I have the higher end Sony stereo mic with the correct plug. It is a simple and fast set up.
Not too bad on bass responce and I am a bass player.

My only problem is with auto level control, it can get a "pumping" sound if too close to a band,
and too far away and it doesn't sound so great. Too much room.

The problem with my Sony minidisc is that the non auto level control doesn't seem to stay where I place it, but always re-sets to auto. So I have to re configure it each set... a real pain.

If I really want a good recording I use 2 Earthworks SR-71 mics into a Bluetube preamp, and then line into the minidisc.

Not as simple or cheap as the Sony mic, but a much more pro sound.

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 29 Aug 2004 12:17 pm

This is getting off the subject a little bit, but why would any live recording have to be done in stereo?
Unless it's an unamplified acoustic instrumental band, the amps and PA are mixing everything up into one monaural sound, aren't they?

Steve Matlock · Post by **Steve Matlock** » 29 Aug 2004 3:45 pm

Al, I'd probably like to spend $100 to $150 on the mic, but the mic you mentioned sounds interesting. I'll check it out. I'm thinking about buying one of the new Hi-MD units from Sony that have just been released. They have some really nice improvements over the Net-MD line. I'm not sure how the mic input level controls work on them, but I hope that they have a manual level control mode. They will allow high speed upload of analog recordings, but this capability will require the updated software that won't be available until this fall. Thanks for the ideas.

Steve

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 29 Aug 2004 4:26 pm

Audio Technica AT-822. Look for one used on eBay.

Brad Sarno

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 30 Aug 2004 4:50 am

Steve,

My strong suggestion is to stay away from Sony's MD line....the portables are notorious for poor recording quality as the motors are very noisy. Sharp makes fine MD units that are generally the ones recommended for pro recording. They are only available overseas, but places like MiniDisco import them and come with a free voltage converter so you can plug it charger into a U.S. outlet.

Plus....and this is a BIG plus....ALL Sharp units have recording level adjusters that can be adjusted "on the fly"....and will stay where you left them. With Sony, they always reset, and if you have to "quickly" change the levels, you must first do a deep dive into the user menu. Not good. Especially if you are on stage playing and are trying to record at the same time.

Now, if you really want Hi-MD, then Sony is the only way to go right now, until Sharp starts making Hi-MD units.

Joe

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 30 Aug 2004 4:57 am

As Joe said level reset is a real pain.

.I had no references for other mini discs when I got mine, I had a gig to record and my mini DAT head was on the fritz.

So I grabbed a Sony, imagining it was up to their normal standards in logical design. N'est pas.
I have owned many Sony products including Betacam video editing systems, but this is clearly another division.
The AT-822 is a nice mic for the money too.

Gere Mullican · Post by **Gere Mullican** » 30 Aug 2004 6:08 am

I have a Sharp MD-MT15 portable, a little larger than a cigarette pack. I had never used it to record anything live until last Thursday night at out little gig in Nashville. I set in on top of the old unused piano with a little mono mic plugged in and punched record and let er rip. I had no idea how it would come out. After it recorded and shut off, I just put it back in the car. When I got home I plugged it in to my computer, cranked up Goldwave and tweaked it a little and recorded it to my hard drive. As I was listening to it, it had a hollow sound because it was a pretty good distance from the source of the sound. I got no background noise and the final result was really good so I burnt it to a CD. I didn't break it down to tracks so it is all on one. The mic was a little old cheapie from a cassette recorder. I just snapped off the little peg that is for the remote start-stop and plugged it in the MD. I was totally pleasantly surprised. This week I will position it better and maybe get a better sound. I might try to find me a Radio Shack mic to use with it too.
Gere

Steve Matlock · Post by **Steve Matlock** » 30 Aug 2004 6:10 am

Which Sharp units do you recommend?

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 30 Aug 2004 7:07 am

Steve....looks like MiniDisco has just a few to choose from, and only one appears to be USA-friendly (IM-DR420)...it is also the cheaper of the ones they have ($250). It has the mic in, as well as optical and line in and both manual and automatic recording level control.

I am pretty particular about what I buy, which is why I would only go with Sharp. But you may find that the Sony will work for what you need (and there are many models to choose from....and with the roll-out of Hi-MD, there are some good deals to be had like this one.

If you go used, I'd look for the Sharp MD-MT290 (2003), MD-MT190 (2002) or MD-MT200 (2002). I have the MT290 and absolutely LOVE it! It is an international model, which are a bit nicer than the Japanese models in that they allow for various voltages (110 - 220) versus Japanese models which tend to operate at 100 (but work fine using American outlets/voltages). Ebay might be a good way to find these....and here's a tip....don't just go to www.ebay.com. Go to the international sites that ebay has, since that's where these units are more common. Check out www.ebay.de (Germany) for a good start.

And also....for lots of info on the units that have been made by ALL manufacturers, check out Minidisc.org.

Too much information?

I sincerely hope this helps!

Joe

Jackie Anderson · Post by **Jackie Anderson** » 30 Aug 2004 9:01 am

I have the Sharp MD-MT15, which I got on eBay for about $75, and it's a great little live recorder -- very compact, but not so tiny that it's difficult to operate. It's very easy to ride the level manually. I record in mono when the sound is coming from a P.A., and get twice the recording time per disk. I have used a variety of small diaphragm condenser mics, with fairly similar results: unfortunately, they all accurately capture the "boominess" of the venues where I have recorded. It would be great to be able to process that out, later. Is it any better, or just worse, to record those "boomy" halls in stereo?

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 30 Aug 2004 2:17 pm

Another vote for the Sharp MD-MT15. I've got two and they're indispensible. Manual record level! No auto level pumping and compression. Ebay's got 'em.

Brad Sarno

Alan Kirk · Post by **Alan Kirk** » 30 Aug 2004 3:24 pm

What's the frequency response on that Sharp?

I've always been disappointed with the bass response of some of these mini stereo mics -- sort of like recording on a camcorder.

------------------

Steve Matlock · Post by **Steve Matlock** » 30 Aug 2004 7:32 pm

I'm not sure, but it appears that some of the features on the new Sony Hi-MD products have addressed some of the shortcomings that you guys have mentioned. Particularly, things like "auto recording level (defeatable)", "manual recording level adjustment while recording" and a "linear PCM" recording mode are all part of the new units. Also, high speed upload of analog recordings.

Steve

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 1 Sep 2004 12:42 pm

I really like the Core Sound Binaural mics. Like most small omnidirectional mics, they have a very natural sound, and are about the size of a pencil eraser. You can clip them wherever it's convenient.

Binaural microphones can produce a stunningly realistic "you are there" recording when placed apropriately at about ear distance apart, and played back through headphones.

Here is a few seconds of a recording I made with the Core Sound Binaurals on a Sharp MD-MT15 minidisc recorder. This is Dave Stuckey and the Rhythm Gang with Jeremy Wakefield on steel guitar, recorded about three years ago at a quaint little place here in Eugene called Sam Bond's Garage. The mics were clipped to a backpack on a table where I was sitting in the audience. Listen to it with headphones if you can.

dinah

Al Sato · Post by **Al Sato** » 1 Sep 2004 1:06 pm

Jerry G's little sound clip really illustrates what you can do with a good set of mics and minidisc. I've been using the Core-Sound binaurals for more than two years with comparable results.

Note that the final product is an mp3 file. Jerry, correct me if I'm wrong but it started life as a minidisc recording in ATRAC format, went through the minidisc player's D/A converter, went through a computer soundcard's A/D converter to something like a wav file and then got converted to mp3. It still sounds very good.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 1 Sep 2004 1:15 pm

That's right, Al, and certainly a 160 kbps mp3 doesn't reveal all the subtleties of the original recording, but it gives you an idea of the sonic character.

One disadvantage of a portable minidisc recorder like this is that in order to do any processing or CD burning, you have to take the audio out as analog, and do another A/D conversion. I'm still waiting for someone to come out with a small, affordable, professional-grade hard disk recorder, something like an iPod, but with good recording firmware and/or software. The technology is there, just waiting for someone to market a product. Core Sound has a front end that records 24-bit 96K audio on a compact flash card through a PDA, but it's a pricey setup.
[This message was edited by Jerry Gleason on 02 September 2004 at 12:54 AM.]

Scooter Heath · Post by **Scooter Heath** » 3 Sep 2004 7:42 am

I'd take Brad's advice on this one. The AT 822 is your best bet for the money, and you won't need a preamp. I used to use one with a portable DAT machine for live recording, and it worked well. Here's the link!

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 3 Sep 2004 4:02 pm

Steve, I use the Sony stero mic that is made for the mini disc. I have recorded with it at many steel shows it works great. It cost about $90. Vre compact and easy to use. Hope this helps.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Sep 2004 10:53 am

Anybody use one of these iPod like MP3 jukeboxes for live recording? I know the iPod doesn't have a good audio interface, but some like the iRiver and the Archos devices claim to have stereo inputs. If I can do recording with these guys and get minidisc like results I think I'm gonna get one.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 6 Sep 2004 5:28 pm

I can't wait to get an interface for my iPod. What a perfect concept.

Brad Sarno

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 6 Sep 2004 6:55 pm

It's not going to happen for the iPod (doesn't fit into the Apple market model for this thing). There's only a lo-fi analog interface into the unit, only useful as a mono voice recorder.

I talked to the Core Sound folks. They recommend the iRiver unit or the Nomad. Both have good audio interfaces. They rave about the sound, saying it's better than a minidisk.[This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 06 September 2004 at 09:10 PM.]

Al Sato · Post by **Al Sato** » 6 Sep 2004 8:38 pm

Hi, Dan T.

You wrote:

I talked to the Core Sound folks. They recommend the iRiver unit or the Nomad. Both have good audio interfaces. They rave about the sound, saying it's better than a minidisk.

If you can answer these questions, I'd appreciate it. Do these units take a microphone directly? What is the interface (1/4", XLR, 1/8", RCA, etc.)? Do they record in a non-compressed format and is it easy to transfer the result to computer at high speed?

Thanks.