The best spring reverb is!!!

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 10 Jul 2004 1:19 am

I use digital reverb because it is cleaner than spring reverb, but times may have changed that to some degree. Thoughts???

Larry Behm

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 10 Jul 2004 2:41 am

Larry, when I first started playing(1954),the only reverb I heard of was a large room containing a mic and a speaker. Then I saw a cardboard box with a 50'garden hose coiled inside with a mic at one end and a speaker coupled to the other end through a funnel.
Later I saw a contraption constructed from a door spring with a phono cartridge at each end.
Around 1961, Eddie Miller(PR man for fender) gives me a brown box labeled "Fender Reverb". Now I had a store bought reverb.
Chet Atkins released a record "Mr. Sandman" and "Theme From Summer Place"(circa 1955) which had a great sounding echo effect. I went to Nashville, talked with Chet and he introduced me to Ray Butts who built the amp he used for that session. It had a tape loop mounted in the bottom of the amp cabinet.
Later I discovered several tape echo units on the market and bought a Fender tape unit.
When the "bucket-brigade chip" was invented, It revolutionized the echo device.
What I am leading up to is the fact that I have tried a lot of ways to simulate the sound of a great hall, and nothing has done a better job for me than the electronic delays. In fact, I have NEVER used the spring reverb in my Nashville 400.
the term "echo" has been used to describe a repeat which is discernable by the human ear. The ear can normally detect repeats 1/10 second (or more)apart.
The term "reverberation" has been used to describe a sustained sound which slowly decays.
An electronic delay is commonly called "reverb" when the delay time is adjusted fast enough that the ear can't hear the individual repeats. The output of the delay is fed back to the input "feedback" and can be adjusted for the number of repeats. This is a way of adjusting the decay time.
This is why I prefer an electronic delay. All parameters can be adjusted to get the sound which I prefer.

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 10 Jul 2004 5:42 am

Eric, I have used a Roland Space Echo RE-101, which has infinite settings, for 30 years or whenever they first came on the market. I don't like spring reverb and I find that I can't get the sound I am used to with digital. Just my fixation, for whatever it is worth.

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 10 Jul 2004 6:02 am

Robert

Where do you get tape cartridges?

thx

bob

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 10 Jul 2004 6:12 am

Demeter makes a studio quality one that is real nice.

Bob

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 10 Jul 2004 7:30 am

They are very simple to make yourself. I have done it for years and it doesn't require any expertise at all. The most difficult thing I found was finding quality tape and I solved that problem by using old 8 track tape. It is very strong and lasts forever. I try to change tape at least once a year. The tape should normally last 300 hours of playing. Simple tape splicers are available for a buck ot two, and you just use a single edge razor blade to cut and then get yourself a small roll of splicing tap Probably available at Radio Shack.
If you have any other questions I will gladly help if I can.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 10 Jul 2004 7:46 am

I have and used an ECHOLETTE unit before "reverb" was avail in amps. I was never quite satisfied with the outcome but it was better than "DRY", or at least, I felt so at the time.

Made in Germany, it was a nice unit.

Anyone interested in acquiring it, for parts or whatever?

Post by **b0b** » 10 Jul 2004 7:55 am

Moved to "Electronics" section.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 Jul 2004 8:39 am

I had Ray's Echolette for a while and had a local Music Electronics wiz do some rehab on it, as it hadn't been turned on in many years.
It has TeleFunkin tubes and makes a great tube preamp.
It does the tape echo thing great, too.
I had this guy make several brand new tapes for it as well.
The only thing we couldn't get it to do was, in the manual, it says you can get up to 31 repeats, which we couldn't figure out how to get that feature to work.
It was a little large and noisy for on stage (compared to digital that is), but a very cool peice of vintage gear none the less.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 10 Jul 2004 8:54 am

I have an EP-3 Echoplex I am restoring now. It is my second one. By far I prefer the Roland unit, best built thing I have every seen and does not eat the tapes. They both are a great sound and command a high dollar. Right now the tape supply for Echoplex has vanished. Jim Dunlop was producing them but no longer does so. Fulltone company has geared up to reproduce the original tube Echoplex ($275,00.00 just to tool up). They are producing four a day at a cost of $999.00. They will soon (in August) be selling tape cartrudges for the original Echoplex machines.

Well, Larry I have not heard a spring unit yet that comes close to the quality of even my RV-5, IMHO. The Lexicons are stil all the rave as well. The best digital I own at this time is a Yamaha REV-500. It is a one rack space unit and does echo, reverb and much more.

With vintage Fender units going $800.00 to $1500.00, a digital is a real bargain. I had a 1966 Fender unit and sold it. It was OK, nothing to brag about! I sold it for $800.00, before the prices went so high!!!

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 10 Jul 2004 10:30 am

About tape cartridges..... Scotty has "echoplex" cartridges listed on his web site. www.scottysmusic.com . He has lots of little goodies and good prices.
I have rewound cartridges when 1/4" tape was readily available. I bought a reel of lubricated tape to use in winding the cartridge. It looked just like the original stuff.
I have never heard a tape echo unit that was quiet. The best one I ever used was the "echolette" from Germany.
I also made a tape echo unit by adding a couple of pulleys (guides) to a 3-head tape recorder and making a tape loop.
I think you are getting the general opinion here that most of us prefer the electronic delay. I still think the Lexicon MPX110 is hard to beat for he money. .... JD

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 10 Jul 2004 10:34 am

Scotty is out of them as well Wish I could just find a cartridge to rewind! No luck with that yet either. I recapped this one and it relly quietened it down, still the S/N ratio is no where close to digital stuff.[This message was edited by Ken Fox on 10 July 2004 at 11:36 AM.]

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 10 Jul 2004 5:33 pm

Demeter, Real Reverb. Single space rack mount.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 10 Jul 2004 5:58 pm

Thar she blows! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=208&item=3920115360&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Jim Florence · Post by **Jim Florence** » 12 Jul 2004 2:22 pm

I still have a Standel "Reverbolux", that used a fluid in a can. It still worked the last time I used it, 1973. There were quite a few of them out at that time.
Jim

Bob Morgan · Post by **Bob Morgan** » 12 Jul 2004 3:16 pm

Ken
What kind of Fender reverb did you have?
I have a Fender unit here and all it says is
(Fender Electronic Echo Chamber)
I have not used it for a good many years.
It is a endless tape unit. If this is the same unit you had maybe I will have to get it out and try it.
Bob

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 12 Jul 2004 3:43 pm

The discontinued Peavey Valverb is a nice sounding unit. Single rack space with reverb and a nice tremolo. Last I knew, they were going for +/- $250.
Tube Works used to make a pretty nice single rack space unit also. Stereo if I remember correctly.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 12 Jul 2004 4:31 pm

I had the tube reverb unit, 1966 model.

Mark Metdker · Post by **Mark Metdker** » 13 Jul 2004 6:48 am

Jerry, I have one of those Peavey Valveverb units. Mine tends to be a bit noisy when the volume goes up. Not sure if they are all that way, or just mine. But, it has the best tremolo on the market in my opinion.[This message was edited by Mark Metdker on 13 July 2004 at 07:48 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 13 Jul 2004 8:53 am

I use a Tube Works spring reverb unit. It can either be operated in stereo or both sets of springs can be combined to make it sound like the Grand Canyon.
Erv