Neodymium speakers

Bruce Wutzke · Post by **Bruce Wutzke** » 16 Oct 2003 5:58 am

Anyone have any experience with these? Used mostly for bass I think, but they are quite a bit lighter. They claim 2 12's will sound as good as a 15. Anyone?
Thanks

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 16 Oct 2003 6:05 am

They're not mainly for bass. Celestion
has been offering them for awhile (their
Century line) for guitar amps.
Eminence has their Delta lights and
Jensen also has a line of neodymium speakers
for guitar. They all are half the weight
of conventional ceramic speakers and are
supposed to sound better all the way around.
I asked Mike Brown at Peavey in a previous
topic whether they might get on the bandwagon.
I didn't get an answer though.
[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 16 October 2003 at 01:42 PM.]

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 16 Oct 2003 6:36 am

I have a pair of the 15" Delta Lites and they are very light (about 7 1/2#). They are not yet available 4 ohm versions and come only in 8 ohms. To my ears they are a bit more "sterile" than either Black Widows or JBL's- not necessarily a bad thing- just different~~

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 16 Oct 2003 10:24 am

Jay, I apologize if I missed your question. Yes, I have been using a BW neo type of speaker as of late and it sounds really good. I haven't made an A/B or side by side comparison between a regular BW magnet and the BW neo magnet yet, but I have played through a Nashville 1000 with a neo equipped BW and I liked it. The tone was extremely close to what I have been using, which is the regular 1501-4ohm sb BW.

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[This message was edited by Mike Brown on 14 November 2003 at 09:07 AM.]

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 16 Oct 2003 12:35 pm

Mike,
Sounds like good news, although I know the
neodymium magnet is a bit more expensive.
So, are they going to be offered as a
possible option in the Nashville 1000 amps?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Oct 2003 3:40 pm

The neodymium speakers could certainly cause a revolution in amplifiers, but they haven't "caught on" yet. The price of neodymium magnets has dropped considerably, and it's only a matter of time before they replace ceramic magnets in most speakers. They do offer significant weight savings. The 12" Celestion model I bought weighs about 3 pounds! That's 6-9 pounds lighter than most speakers of the same size. A 12-18 pound savings in an amp like the Twin Reverb would really be noticeable! Their sound is very "round" and smooth, but their price is about $100 more than a conventional speaker. That's quite a bit, but it only costs you once (when you buy it) so it might still be worthwhile to a few well-heeled pickers.

What we really need is some big manufacturer to step up and give us a high-power version. So far, they're limited to 50-100 watts, but I'd sure like to see someone come up with a model that would handle a couple hundred watts. They could also use an "inverted structure" that would allow the magnet to be placed where the dust-cap is on presently used speakers, and this would give us a nice shallow-design, along with the light weight. (It would also eliminate that annoying "attraction" in the back of amp.) I think the only manufacturer who offers this design so far is Bose, but it would allow much smaller instrument amplifier designs. The 12" Bose speaker used as a sub-woofer (that came factory-installed in my new car) is less than 3" deep!!![This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 16 October 2003 at 04:44 PM.]

Rich Gibson · Post by **Rich Gibson** » 17 Oct 2003 3:19 am

I have a deltalite in my silver knob nash 400 and a jensen version in my deluxe reverb.I like them both-particularly the delta.Very clean and clear.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 17 Oct 2003 5:00 am

The prototype BW neo is rated at 500 watts continuous. Is that enough power?

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 17 Oct 2003 6:10 am

When do you think they'll be available?

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 17 Oct 2003 7:26 am

Go Peavey! This Neo' BW thing is great news! Lighter steel amps for everyone! Yea!! I hope they're keeping the aluminum dust cap for the steel speaker model. Is it the same 1501-4 basket?

Thanks Mike!

Brad Sarno

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 17 Oct 2003 7:33 am

Dan Healy commented in legnth about these for the PSGA newsletter in April. He's very much in favor of the idea, and he thinks the sound will be superior even to JBL's, although it should be noted that he's not a JBL guy.

JB

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David Spangler · Post by **David Spangler** » 19 Oct 2003 9:06 pm

I decided to take the risk and bought an Eminence Delta-Lite 2515 15" model from Parts Express for $123. I own a legitamate copy of the Eminence cabinet design software and proceeded to design a cab suitable for steel, lead guitar, fiddle.

Of the Delta-lite line, the 15" has higher frequency response than the 10" and 12", going up to 4000 Hz. This was designed for bass or PA but ...... I figured it was worth a shot. A typical bass or PA cabinet would have to be at least 3 cubic feet ported to take advantage of the low-end response. But we only need response down to about 80 Hz for lead instruments.

From my software, I came up with a 1.9 cubic foot sealed enclosure with the speaker front-loaded. I filled the enclosure with fiberglas insulation for damping. The result was very acceptable, not too boomy and plenty of highs.

I tested this on my rig using a Boss VF-1 preamp/effects and a Stewart PA1000 amp. I was able to achieve ear-splitting levels with no sign of distortion or malfunction. Also ran my friend's steel through a Pearce G2r (200W @ 8 ohms) into the Delta and was amazed at the sound levels.

The speaker is rated at 300W RMS continuous and is 8 ohms. This means that a Peavey Nashville 400 would produce 130W into this speaker flat out instead of 210W at 4 ohms.

The efficiency is 99 dB @ 1 Watt @ 1 meter, compared to the Peavey Black Widow 1501-4 which is 98 db.

Another interesting feature is the bullet-shaped magnet pole-piece visible behind the screen dust cover. It functions similar to the phase plug in a compression tweeter horn as well as dissipating heat through the dust cover.

My gigging speaker is a Peavey Nashville 115se which I modified by replacing the back with a larger panel which creates a 1" wide port. This cab is a little louder and has some mid-range coloration which I happen to like for playing jazz guitar. The Delta seems to have a flatter, more neutral tone. Not bad, just a little different.

My next trial will be the 10" model. I want to see how it stands up.

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David Spangler

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 23 Oct 2003 5:30 am

I don't have an availibility date at this time but hope to soon. Stay tuned.

Since the Peavey neo speaker is not available yet, a decision has not been made about offering it as an option. I don't know at this time, but it might become a "permanent" speaker as soon as we can offer it to the public at a reasonable price. That has always been our goal, however, in some instances I wonder if it would matter about the price.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 23 Oct 2003 2:18 pm

Mike, I bet the price difference would be less than a visit to a decent chiropractor. I'll order one as soon as you got 'em.

Brad Sarno

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 30 Oct 2003 6:54 am

I'll let you know the price as soon as it is announced. Thanks for your interest Brad.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 31 Oct 2003 5:58 pm

Even an old guy like me, might be able to carry around a new lightweight Peavey with the Neo speaker.

Like a 112, say 30 lbs,would be perfect for me....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 31 October 2003 at 05:59 PM.]

Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 7 Nov 2003 9:01 pm

I have a Eminence 2512 12" Speaker ordered that should be here next week. I contacted the people at Eminence and they said the Deltalite speaker is highly suited for Steel guitar. As I understand it, the worst enemy of a Neo magnet speaker is heat. If the magnet over heats it is ruined. Eminence has a heat sink on the back of the magnet to take care of any over heating. I will follow up with the performance opinion when I get mine and try it out.

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Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 HiVolt, and Gretsch Nashville Pro Steel Amps, Keith Hilton Digital Sustain pedal and Digital Sustain Box .
Harold Parris email hparris9@aol.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Nov 2003 4:34 pm

Mike, 500 watts is a little "overkill", IMHO. I'd be perfectly satisfied with 300-350 in the 15", and 150 in the 12". The usual problem with super-high wattage designs is they sacrifice frequency and transient response, and efficiency, due to the high cone and former masses required, but I assume you're working on those aspects.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 14 Nov 2003 9:14 am

I agree about the 500 watts being overkill and it may change between now and when it is released. Our transducer engineers are working on several neo projects right now, so that spec is subject to change.

In the manufacturing business, sometimes it becomes a "numbers game", efficiency and power handling specs are always what engineers shoot for, and rightfully so. Wouldn't it be great to get to the point of a 10 pound speaker with say, a 110dB and handles 300 watts?

David Rich · Post by **David Rich** » 14 Nov 2003 1:02 pm

I would like to see manufacturers go further with the lightweight concept, neodymium speakers, toroidal transformers, aluminum chassis, light but strong cabinetry. It would be expensive, but worth it.

Dave Rich

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Nov 2003 3:59 pm

Wouldn't it be great to get to the point of a 10 pound speaker with say, a 110dB and handles 300 watts?

Mike, knowing the dedication and resources you guys have at Peavey, I have no doubt that by this time next year, we'll be able to buy one with specs like those you mention. Here's my prediction...

The "300 watts" will be a given.
The weight will be closer to 8 pounds.
The efficiency will be almost 106 db.

And believe me, that'll do!

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 19 Nov 2003 9:37 pm

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Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 20 Nov 2003 6:42 am

John, hate to burst your bubble, but the PX300 doesn't weigh 26.5lbs. Never has, the operating guide spec is an error. Sorry, but the PX300 weighs 54.3lbs. Our error in the manual.

Be on the lookout for our neo magnet.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 20 Nov 2003 7:09 am

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Harold Parris · Post by **Harold Parris** » 23 Dec 2003 8:38 pm

I promised some time ago to give a follow up on my deltalite 12" speaker. Well, I finally got around to installing it and it is a hoss. I ran the preamp up and tried to make it splatter but it would not. It is as clean and pure as the driven snow. I have all kind of speakers in my equipment and I'll say it is as good as any I have and better than some of them. I see no problem with these speakers and the weight factor and watt factor should help one make the judgement call.

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Sierra Session and MSA Classic Guitars, Nashville 400, Session 400, and Evans FET 500 HiVolt, and Gretsch Nashville Pro Steel Amps, Keith Hilton Digital Sustain pedal and Digital Sustain Box .
Harold Parris email hparris9@aol.com