Recording Direct

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 12 May 2003 5:55 pm

I have always recorded direct into the board unless the Producer requested me to bring an amp.I am currentl playing a Carter D-10 with George L pickups.Any thoughts on Direct Vs.Amp,Stu

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 12 May 2003 6:52 pm

I like to record direct because it is so simple as I can carry the steel with the GX-700 strapped on it in one hand and the pacaseat in the other hand until yesterday when the plastic handle of the pacaseat split apart and the metal strip inside it sliced my finger wide open releasing buckets of blood everywhere so I took the handle off and now it takes two hands to carry it. Now where can I buy a handle?

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 12 May 2003 6:53 pm

Hi, Stu, I've rarely liked the sound of pickups direct into a board channel, except for a "thin effect" kind of tone. I usually use some kind of preamp, like a Peavey Profex/ Transtubefex or one of the many available these days. Every time I cut tracks direct with no preamp, I've never liked the way the engineer eq'ed the tone in the mix. Have you gotten good tone just straight into the board? I've heard some good sounds going through outboard mic pres (Avalon, Manley, Great River, etc.) but not so much straight in. I've just written some articles on this that will hopefully show up in Steel Guitar .US mag.
And Ernest- most music stores carry Fender or Peavey replacement handles that may fit your seat. Might have to move one of the attachment holes...
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C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com
My Bands: Sugarland Kate and the Retreads Kecia Garland Band Shane Bridges Band Dell Conner Blues Band

[This message was edited by Mark van Allen on 12 May 2003 at 07:55 PM.]

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 12 May 2003 7:05 pm

The Roland processers are very good.I use an old GP100 when I need to go direct. I run it into a more me box that has stereo 1/4'' inputs and xlr outputs at either mic level or +4. It also has an xlr input for the headphone feed and volumn and pan controls for the pre amp, allowing you to mix yourself louder in the phones. Matthew Beckett just showed me a new more-me box built by Jim Stover in Phoenix . It looked like it was well built. His number is 602 376 0192. IMHO this is one of the best investments for direct recording. You hear exactly what you are sending the engineer.BTW I'm sure the new Roland modeling processers sound great. Also some guys swear by the POD pro.
BB

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 12 May 2003 7:31 pm

Mark,We went into a Manley Pre,and then into the Yamaha 02 Mixer,The sound is just wonderful.The main reason that I dont bring an amp is out of Lazyness,one less piece of gear to haul around.Ernest sorry to hear about your finger,try wearing a pair of gloves when moving equiptment in the future.

Stu Schulman · Post by **Stu Schulman** » 12 May 2003 7:34 pm

Oh!one more thing,I setup in the control room,and listen thru the monitors.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 12 May 2003 8:35 pm

setup in the control room,and listen thru the monitors.

so you know what you really sound like (impossible to know using headphones only)

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 12 May 2003 11:32 pm

Although my recording is "bush league" I do it at some pretty nice studios lately. Certainly not Nvl, but the more current digital setups. The last/best one was based on a Mac.

I've been using in the last two, a Line 6 Pod, set for pre 64 tweed twin, with spring reverb. It's got me fooled. Then they can do whatever they want with the signal.

I'm getting to like it.

EJL

Post by **Joey Ace** » 13 May 2003 4:06 am

Great topic and responses!

So good that I'm moving it to ELECTRONICS.

Actually it belongs there.
The description of ELECTRONICS

"Steel guitar amplifiers, effects, recording, etc.

can be seen on the main page of the SGF.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 13 May 2003 9:49 am

so you know what you really sound like

and you can see the looks on their faces.....

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 23 May 2003 3:16 pm

I was just thinking about this last week when I did a session on guitar. I dragged my 77 lb Twin Reverb (+ flight case) into the studio. This place was near a residential area at night. With only 2 of the 4 6L6s, I still couldn't get that Twin cranked up to my satisfaction. I can overdrive the input easily enough, but I have been happier with the sound when the output tube are a bit into saturation too.

So how does everyone like the Line 6 Pod for steel and/or guitar especially with a slightly distorted sound?

Regards,
Terry

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 24 May 2003 6:06 am

Terry, I used a Pod 2.0 as a front end for my '69 Twin for a while, and I thought it was pretty good for live guitar. I used a slightly crunchy patch (I think it was the Vox AC30) about 90% of the time since I couldn't crank the Twin.

I've since bought a '70 Vibrolux Reverb and found it to be much better for the live playing I do. Twins are great, but I concluded nothing sounds like a lower power Fender driven a little harder. JMO...

Unfortunately, Vibrolux Reverbs, even the SF models are bringing relatively high prices right now. I've seen mid 70's go for $600 to $800 on ebay.

I've never gotten anything from the Pod I liked for steel, regardless of what amp or direct. Some people do, just didn't work for me.

[This message was edited by Bill Terry on 24 May 2003 at 07:09 AM.]

RickRichtmyer · Post by **RickRichtmyer** » 29 May 2003 6:48 am

I have a home project studio based around a Roland VS-1824CD. I recently purchased a Johnson J-Station for $149 and so far I like it pretty well. They've been discontinued so the price is dropping quickly. It has a 24bit SP/DIF output which is great with the Roland. So far I've only used it in its "dry" mode for initial tracking. At this point I've been taking the dry tracks and bouncing them through a Profex II after the fact. I'm pretty happy with this arrangement.

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Rick Richtmyer
Sugarloaf Recording
Good News

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 29 May 2003 9:53 am

I think that a speaker is a critical part of the voice of the instrument. Direct guitar, having never created soundwaves that travelled thru air, seems to just sound weird and is hard to mix. Guitars, pickups, amps, and speakers were all developed together to create a cohesive. musical instrument. Direct guitar tends to sit too close to the ear when mixed. It's psychoacoustically unpleasant for my taste. I've yet to hear a great classic steel recording that wasn't thru an amp, as far as I know. Weren't all the great steel sounds made from an amplifier with a mic on it? Curly, Buddy, Hughey, Lloyd, Mooney, Brumley, Byrd, Day, etc. The dynamic and tonal effect of a speaker is where the final voice is created and made cohesive. Without that stage you get an awkwardly "near" sounding guitar that's hard to place in a mix with any sense of realism. It's hard to get that warmth and nearly impossible to get that fat punchy C6 low end without a speaker.

However, the new technology of amp modeling, like with the POD, has this taken into consideration. The "modeling" process is based on the sound of an amp's speaker and mimics the effect of soundwaves travelling thru air off of a speaker cone because that's how the amps were modeled in the lab. I've heard some pretty convincing stuff coming out of these devices. But direct recording thru just a DI or rack effect unit leaves me cold. But even with the POD and other modeling devices out there, nothing can touch a well placed mic on a good sounding amp. IMHO

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Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 29 May 2003 1:49 pm

I'll agree with Brad here. Mics can add a lot. I usually mic instruments or cabinets with 2 mics if possible. The Brauner and/or an Earthworks typicaly.

I have been recording the Sho-Bud into an Avalon U-5 a lot and then use the Line 6 plug-in as an amp emulator. Sometimes I double the track and use two different amp configurations.

I also run into the Aphex 1100 Thermionics tube pre amp, through a passive box or the Fishman Pro-EQ DI box. It sounds very good like that into a amp simulator. Often an AC-30 and 50's twin cab.

I will use the TubeFex when it gets here next week and record my live sound and direct at the same time. 3 tracks; Mic 1, 2 and DI. That should be fat enough.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 29 May 2003 at 02:54 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 29 May 2003 3:27 pm

I usually record with my Mesa/Boogie combo amp. If they don't want to mike an amp, the Boogie has a "silent recording" line out jack. It sounds better if they mike the speaker, though.

I don't like the direct sound. Too sterile.

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