How Much Difference Does Changing Pickups Make?

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Comments made on another post by Donny and John prompted me to start this thread.

If you're not totally happy with the sound of your guitar, does replacing a perfectly good pickup make much of a difference?

How much?

I'm not talking about replacing a pickup that's gone bad.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

My reply is:
Pickups make a big difference.
You need a good guitar as a start, but you might have a great guitar and the stock pickups don't suit your style.

I've changed my D10's GeorgeL TWs to XR-16s in the past year. It made a big difference. Better to my ears.

Others may like the sound of the TWs better. The point is there was a big change the in "Tone Color".

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

Joe, see my earlier post on TrueTone pickups. This pickup has transformed this Remington guitar. I'm asuming that some of the difference is the change from a humbucking pickup to a single coil, some to the construction of the pickup, whatever, there is a huge difference between the Wallace pickup and the old George L.

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 02:24 AM.]

Jason Lollar · From: Seattle area

Part of it is the way the coils are wound, I assume Jerry is still winding on a machine like mine which is kind of primitive like the way they did from the 30's through early 60's.
Then the tendancy later seems to have been to overwind too much in an attempt to make the steel sound smoother but you loose definition.
Alot of it also has to do with design, after the 50's pickup designs became homogonized so many companies are working with the same basic design.
Thats my take on it which has been affirmed by talking to several players that use "newer" pickups but I am no expert on later model steel pickups, I am stuck back no later than the 60's and keep working backwards in time.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Fred, you haven't exactly disagreed with me. My comments were meant more more along the line of the differences in humbucker pickups. The differences in sound between humbucking designs and single-coil designs is more significant than the differences between different humbucker designs (which is what most guitars come with now).

Still, as John Bechtel said, a lot of the inherent tone comes from the guitar itself. Also, a "capable" amplifier will also go a long way towards perfecting a good tone. I still maintain that the pickup is the least significant aspect in the equation of

S=P+A+G+P+S

Sound(or tone)=player+amp+guitar+pickup+speaker

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

My favorite guitar, a Professional, has had the original pickups, 705's, ZB triplecoil/splitcoils, Danny Sheilds Bigsby copies and now the copies with the 705's in the neck position. The guitar has its sound, the pickups have their sound and the combination of the two is what the instrument sounds like, in the "world according to Chas".

I have a pair of Lollar Stringmaster 10's in one of my (white top) E-Harps. The difference between the original Epiphone pickup and the Lollars is like getting religeon and they really "bring out" what a 60 year old piece of wood can sound like.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I'll have to chime in on the TrueTones as well. I had two single 12 Fessenden guitars, both of which started out with BL712 pickups. I really believe that, for a bright sounding guitar, WITH AN ACTIVE VOLUME PEDAL (e.g., Hilton, the newer Goodrich models) OR A MATCHBOX, the 700 series pickups are too hot for my taste. With a simple pot pedal they sound much better to my ear.

In any case, one guitar ended up with a BL912, which I though sounded much better, but still not the clarity of my Emmons p/p S-12. I also thought the GUITAR was capable of that degree of string separation and overall clarity -- which is what I look for in a push-pull -- and a sound I look for in all guitars, but rarely find. My newer Fessy came with the 712 and I immediately swapped it out for a TrueTone after talking to Jerry Wallace on the phone. Great guy, BTW. I set the 912 guitar up with the TrueTone guitar and adjusted the EQ for a good sound. I thought it was pretty good -- not the p/p clarity -- but pretty good. Then, I plugged in the new guitar with the TrueTone on it. It was like someone had pulled a wad of cotton out of my ears. I've made some recordings of both Fessies and my p/p on the same tune, same rig, etc. The TrueTone in the newer Fessy rivals the push-pull. It's not the SAME sound -- it's the same CLARITY of sound.

So I'd recommend considering the volume pedal and matchbox/buffer amp (or lack thereof) AND the brand/model of pickup. But, yes, the pickup can make a big difference. Can it make a bad guitar sound great? Probably not, but it can make a noticeable difference -- AND -- can make a great guitar sound better, IMHO.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Roger Crawford · From: Griffin, GA USA

This is starting to sound like an add for TrueTone's. However, I did replace the BL910's on my Zum with Jerry's pick ups. And to answer the question, the pick up can (and does) change the tone of the guitar. And in my case for the better. The BL's were quiet, but too dark in the mids for my taste. TT's got me the single coil sound I was looking for with minimal noise and mega TONE!

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

I replaced a set of 19K PU's for 14.5K PU's in a '69 Emmons' P/P. It made a decided difference in the tone.

I bought a new Sierra Session D-10. I paid extra for Sierra's CT (crap-trap) slide in PU's. I also ordered a set of George L's slide ins. I could never tell one iota of difference between the different make PU's.

So, in my case at least, it depends on what one has; and what you are going to.

carl

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

My experience is also that pickups definitely have their own sound. I've actually got lots of experience in that area with six-string guitars. A prime example is Seymour Duncan, who makes a number of different pickups for each style (Gibson humbucker, Strat, Tele, etc.). They've got atleast 30 different versions of the Gibson humbucker, and there are subtle (and not so subtle) differences between each one.
In regards to the comment regarding humbucking pickups in steel guitar, I had SuperSustain pickups on my MSA D10 that sounded muddy and a touch rude. Replaced them with the L710's and got a nice open sound with clarity and definition. From my experience, a humbucker is not a humbucker is not a humbucker...

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

The question I'm often left with is this:

Granted that different pickups have different tonal characteristics, but to what extent can you neutralize or compensate for those differences by how you set your amp (i.e., adding or subtracting highs, mids, lows, etc)? If you can compensate via the amp, then it doesn't much matter which pickup you use. (It does seem to me, though, as if string separation may be a different matter, since that presumably can't be adjusted on the amp.)

Comments?

Fred Shannon · From: Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 02:25 AM.]

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

FWIW, I've expierienced a significant amount of joyous experimentation by way of the Sierra Modular Pickup feature.
For example, At the 2002 ISGC I had at least a dozen pickups on hand in the Sierra booth and many of us Sierra pickers had a ball swapping them in and out and experiminting with the different pickups and amps on hand (Peavey 2000, Session 500, and 2 Fender Deluxes) and amp settings, and effects and effects settings.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Great, Pete. So then my question for you is whether, for your guitar, you found ONE pickup that you felt was superior, regardless of the amp, or the amp settings, or whether you could choose an amp and/or amp settings to satisfy your ear with just about any of the pickups.

My second question for you is: are you gettin' any sleep these days?

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hey Jim,
The Modular Pickup setup makes trying/comparing pickups (A/B/C/etc...) really easy, and most Sierra players I've met own at least 2 or more pickups (and amps for that matter) and enjoy mixing, matching, experimenting, trading, etc.

I usually use my Danny Shields CT-12 because of all the pickups I've tried, I just like the way it sounds. Also, it's a hard to find, no longer made pickup, that not many players have, so it has a uniqueness about it that I like too.

I'm currently down to 4 pickups from a dozen or more. I've found that there are alot of pickups that sound very similar, and there are some pickups that sound drasticly different.

For example, I have one Danny Shields pickup that sounds so great with a Fender Twin Reverb amp, but I prefer the CT-12 with my Walker Stereo Steel setup.

I recently got a True Tone single coil, and also have a custom DiMarzio (made by Steve Blutcher) that is cool too.

On the other hand, I played an Emmons for 18 years and never changed pickups.
I've never changed pickups on my Sho-Bud either.

The bottom line, as you know, is...
If it's "acceptable" to you, then why change?... unless you want to find out for yourself what other pickups will sound like in your guitar through your setup for your style, etc.

I'm amazed that every steel brand doesn't offer modular pickups, and that there isn't an industry standard such that anyone could swap pickups with anyone in 5 seconds.

I don't know if that answered your first question or not... but as for your 2nd question, I get a good 2-4 hours of sleep between crying/feeding/changings!... but still get a total of 6-8 hours or so a night.

Mark van Allen · From: Watkinsville, Ga. USA

I know these questions come up when changing pickups- it would be cool for all guitars to have modular fixtures so we could more easily compare tones- but when changing pickups on my Carter recently I really wanted a stab at objectivity so I recorded some backup tracks in several different styles, and overdubbed steel to them before and after switching from George L's to Truetones. I used exactly the same preamp/tone/volume settings and played as close to the same attack and phrasing as possible, and the differences were unmistakeable. My previous post goes into a lot more detail, but to sum up, Truetones RAWK.

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C'mon by and visit!- www.markvanallen.com
My Bands: Sugarland Kate and the Retreads Kecia Garland Band Shane Bridges Band Dell Conner Blues Band

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Jim,
If I read your posts right, you are asking if any one pickup can be made to sound like any other of the various pickups available by use of outboard gear tweaks.
Sounds like a good question for Bill Lawrence!
I'm always attracted to the ones that are unique, and whose tonal coolness can't be replicated by another brand/model pickup with or without outboard gear tweaking (I really don't even use any outboard gear other than Reverb and/or Delay).
I did find several pickups that imho sounded very similar no matter what knobs you turned, and in the end decided I only need one that sounds like that, and traded the others away (not that there was anything wrong with them, just didn't need the tonal duplication).
Again, I never even thought of experimenting with other pickups before I got the Sierra, and then it just became a fun and interesting part of the overall hobby.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 12 May 2003 at 11:37 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Pickups make a big difference in the sound. At first, it doesn't seem that great, but after you start swapping them a lot you learn to appreciate the differences.

I currently perform with 3 pickups on hand for my Sierra. The pickup sound I want for country is very different from the pickup sound that drives effects well, IMHO. Maybe that's why so many steel players have lousy rock tones! You can't just take your country twang and run it through a fuzz tone and expect it to sound good.

Good rock guitarists are as knowledgable and as picky about tone as good country steel players. They know enough to put down the Les Paul and pick up the Tele when they want to play country. Steel players, though, expect to get an appropriate sound for all kinds of music from the same axe. Switching pickups is the only way I've found to do that.

Chuck Wright was really onto something when he invented the Sierra pickup system.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9), Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 13 May 2003 at 12:10 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Donny,
What pickups have you tried for your Millenium?
Just curious.
Thx,
~pb

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

So far Pete, I've tried the E66's, the 710's and the 910's. I've also played around with a single-coil of secret design, and I plan to order the TW's, Wallace TT's, the XLR16's. I figure that if I have every one they make, then I'll be able to please everybody!

(And maybe even prove what I've been saying!)

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

John Steele (deceased) · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

Gee... and I was told it's "all in the hands".

-John

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