Problem with George Ls

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 5 May 2003 2:17 pm

A few days ago I installed a pair of George Ls in my Mullen D-10. Before purchasing them, I checked with George L and Mullen to make sure of the compatibility, etc. Both companies assured me that George Ls have been put in Mullen guitars lots of times with no problem.

Well, not only did the side tabs have to be cut off (predicted) but the end tabs needed to be trimmed down too (not predicted). Even still, it was a very tight fit. When they were mounted on the deck of the Mullen, it turns out that one pickup ended up facing the wrong direction; this is unavoidable because of the "Sho-Bud" mount with 2 tabs on one end and 1 tab on the other.
I called the George L company today to inquire if they make pickups facing the other direction, in anticipation of this VERY PREDICTABLE problem. I got to speak with Mona who assured me that they've been making pickups for a long time, that they are installed into the Mullen all the time, Dell uses them on some of the guitars he builds, George L has an excellent reputation, they are experts and know what they are doing, etc. etc. She also added that this isn't her problem, that I should talk to Mullen about this. NOT YOUR PROBLEM?
Well, it seems to me that this IS their problem. I did not buy these pickups from a fly-by-night company, and they are being installed in a well-known brand. Plus, I did my homework, and was reassured of the ease and simplicity of this. When a customer calls you up with a reasonable problem, if you cannot take responsibility and at least help find a solution, plus apologize for any inconvenience, then the negative publicity you seem so eagerly searching for shall be all yours.
I don't understand the mystery here! After all it is neither rocket science or brain surgery. The mounting holes are how they are, and as Mona was so fond of pointing out repeatedly, they've been selling these pickups for years. With that in mind, should have known about this problem, shouldn't you??!!
When I contacted Mullen a short time later, the simple solution of re-drilling the holes in the deck using a 1/8 " bit was given to me by a very courteous and helpful guy named Mike. While Mullen should have also warned me of this problem when I was researching it, to their credit they were helpful, reassuring and courteous. Mona you can learn a thing or two about customer relations by talking with Mike at Mullen guitars.
That's all I have to say.

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Sho-Bud Pro II D-10
Mullen D-10
Digitech DSP256 XL
Fender Stratocaster
Peavey and Evans

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 May 2003 3:02 pm

I'm sorry you had a problem, Jim. But often, what is "no problem" to a vendor or manufacturer turns out to be a "significant problem" for the unskilled/unequipped consumer. Replacing one manufacturer's pickup with another's is seldom an "easy job".

Considering the minimal difference it usually makes in the sound/tone, I'm surprised that so many people still do it.

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 5 May 2003 9:02 pm

I bought a used GeoL for my MSA classic s12 a few years ago. I had to fiddle and faddle around with the mounting too. It sound great and hasn't fallen out of the mount yet. I guess It never occured to me if it was in frontward or backward. I don't see how it matters which direction the lettering faces.
Too bad there isn't a true industry standard for mountings like there is with a Gibson Humbucker or a Fender Tele or Strat setups. Hundreds of aftermarket pickups for those and their clones.

BD

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 5 May 2003 10:36 pm

There is no difference in the direction the pick-up faces! I had a GFI brand new, which uses Geo.L's, and each of the p/u's was mounted opposite the other. All dbl neck steels, to the best of my knowledge have the lead wires droping down through the body, between the necks. So, they must be mounted opposite each other! besides, if you don't like the lettering turned around, it will ware off soon enough and won't bother anyone! "Big John"

http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Post by **Joey Ace** » 6 May 2003 5:56 am

Customer Service is an important skill.
More companies need to pay attention to that.

"Considering the minimal difference it usually makes.."

So, how much difference did it make?

Robert Baringer · Post by **Robert Baringer** » 6 May 2003 6:46 am

I have had George L 10-1's in my mullen for three or four years and they work fine, one is in upside down or backward which ever way you want to put it, at the time I was deciding on the E66's or the 10-1's,someone at George L's recommended the 10-1's they said Jimmy Day had used them, I do not know if the E66's would make that much difference, if anyone out there knows I would appreciate the info...Bob...

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 6 May 2003 8:26 am

I put two E-66's in my old teal Mullen D-10. Yes, the C6 pickup logo faced the "wrong" way. The pickups sounded great and worked correctly. The fact that one name was facing a different direction than the other didn't bother me, since I'm more concerned with the sound and operation of the instrument than I am about the direction of the logo.

I did call George L and asked if the magnetic direction of the pickup (not the logo) mattered, and Mona told me "no, just put it in, it will be fine." I did and it was. The installation was easy and I didn't have to trim any of the mounting tabs. I did have to remove some knee lever parts to access the control switch, since I had 4 knees on C6 on that guitar.

To me, if a pickup doesn't work as intended, THAT is a what a company should see as a "problem." If the logo faces the wrong direction on ONE neck of ONE brand of guitar, that to me is an "idiosyncracy." Companies don't change manufacturing procedures of successful products based on relatively infrequent incidents like this.

I would surmise that George Lewis makes his design decisions based on what he feels is a general need of the customer base. I'm sure Del Mullen does the same.

Anybody upset about the direction of the logo and yet want the George L sound should get the TPPP Model pickup, which has exposed pole pieces and no pesky logo. It will sound different than an E-66, 10-1, etc., but it will look correct, and that is what is important, no?

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 6 May 2003 12:50 pm

Some of you seem to be missing the point I was trying to make yesterday, when admittedly I was a bit ticked-off. I maintain that apearance matters to all of us, even if you choose not to admit it out loud. That's why steels, autos and clothes come in different styles, colours, etc. Look at the steels for sale here at the Forum: people describe any blemishes, scratches, the colour etc. Seen any plaid lacquer finish steel guitars lately? Not likely. Did any of you guys wear a polka-dot suit to your wedding? Doubtful.
That aside, the bigger issue is as follows: For a simple and standardized pickup replacement, The GeorgeL people could have apprised me ahead of time that there would be asymetry. Then I would have found out ahead of time how to correct it, and done so during the installation on Saturday. The fact that they didn't do this, and then blew me off instead of admitting their error and trying to help me correct it is bad customer service, and shows arrogance and a lack of spinal fortitude. When somebody says: "It's not my problem", that just fuels the fire. We all make mistakes, overlook details, etc. I am in Cardiology which means I have less room for errors, but you can be sure that when I do screw up, at work or at home, I admit it.
Now that they are in, the George Ls sound good, warm and full.

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Sho-Bud Pro II D-10
Mullen D-10
Digitech DSP256 XL
Fender Stratocaster
Peavey and Evans

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 6 May 2003 4:21 pm

If it's any consolation Jim, mounting a George L on my Emmons required re-drilling of the existing holes in the pickup and some filing to allow the wiring to lay correctly. You're not alone in your frustrations.

Sam White · Post by **Sam White** » 8 May 2003 3:23 am

Hey Jim and all. If you want to modifiy your steel and put diffrent pick up in it or anything eles diffrent you have to exspect to do some modifying.Don't blame to company you bought from.If Mullen wanted George-Ls in there steels they would have put them in.Also that is why they put all the tabs on the pick up so you can use the ones you want. If you change something you have to MODIFY it.
Sam White

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 8 May 2003 11:46 am

Yea, me too. I just installed an E-66 in my Emmons and it took some filing and drilling on the pickup and it's still a tight fit. The holes aren't spaced right. Maybe George L's should take a closer look at their template.

Brad Sarno

Larry R · Post by **Larry R** » 10 May 2003 8:41 pm

If you think GL's are a tight fit, try installing a Bill Lawrence pu. Some light milling is needed to get them to fit properly.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 10 May 2003 10:56 pm

What makes the most sense to me is, Don't change P/U Brands. If you're not satisfied with the sound, and have no other same-brand choice, the problem is not the P/U. Replace the guitar! Even that may not be the whole problem! Don't replace anything until you're certain of just who the problem really is! JMHO "Big John" http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 May 2003 11:46 pm

I would kinda agree with John, here. Don't expect a big change in the sound of your guitar when you swap pickups. Now that I have a guitar with the "quick-change" pickup feature, I can compare the sound of different pickups within seconds. The differences in sound between, say, a Lawrence 910, and a George~L E-66 are strikingly insignificant.

Post by **Joey Ace** » 11 May 2003 3:58 am

"Don't change P/U Brands. If you're not satisfied with the sound, and have no other same-brand choice, "

I don't agree.
This comment is so interesting that I've started a new thread about it.
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/003793.html

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 11 May 2003 8:21 am

I thought the original problem was, The new p/u doesn't fit! The complaint was that a lot of unwanted customizing had to be done! If you don't want all that work, it is advisable not to change brands, unless you know for sure! Apparently, poor judgement was involved in the original design/component choice! "Big John"

Post by **Joey Ace** » 11 May 2003 10:55 am

There was no "poor judgment" on the part of Jim, the customer. He researched the matter first, and said,

"Both companies assured me that George Ls have been put in Mullen guitars lots of times with no problem."

I believe his complaint is he was given incomplete information at first, and poor service in his follow up calls.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 11 May 2003 8:04 pm

Perhaps Geo.L's have been put in Mullen many times, but; Who put them there? Surely, not Geo. Lewis. Was it Mullen Co. or the guitar owner? Granted, preliminary info. may not have been complete! But, I wouldn't hold Geo. L. Co. responsible for something beyond their line of expertise! Just because they are aware that it has been done, doesn't imply that they did it! "John"

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 11 May 2003 11:13 pm

I wonder why more builders don't go to the slide in slide out pickup, you change pickups in 5 seconds, you can hear the difference on the bandstand were you need too, not wait till you get there, or were ever you play....no body ownes a patten on it.i know my Dad didn't patten it..But he was the first to do this...
<img src="http://img.villagephotos.com/ ... eight=153>

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DavidWright.us
Sierra Guitars

Sierra S-12 9&7
Peavey-2000-PX-300

[This message was edited by David Wright on 12 May 2003 at 12:16 AM.][This message was edited by David Wright on 12 May 2003 at 12:17 AM.][This message was edited by David Wright on 12 May 2003 at 12:24 AM.][This message was edited by David Wright on 12 May 2003 at 12:25 AM.][This message was edited by David Wright on 12 May 2003 at 12:25 AM.]

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 12 May 2003 5:48 am

This analogy is for John Bechtel:
If you own a GMC Yukon that takes 22" wipers, and choose to replace them, you can get GMC wipers. Or you can buy another brand, let's say Anco wipers. So you look at the Anco parts book at the auto parts store, and it says the Anco wiper for the Yukon is model number X2457. You check with GMC to be sure, and the dealer confirms that the X2457 is the correct wiper. You buy a pair, take them home and they don't fit without first modifying the wiper arm. Whose fault is this? Surely not the consumer. So you contact Anco and their customer service person tells you that "We've been selling Anco wipers for GMC cars for years, it's not our problem" And it's raining out John! Now what?

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Sho-Bud Pro II D-10
Mullen D-10
Digitech DSP256 XL
Fender Stratocaster
Peavey and Evans

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 May 2003 6:43 am

Wow,

This is going to win few (if any) brownie points, but IF anyone makes a PU for ANY guitar, it should fit without ANY modifications. IF not, that maker should state it in plain English. This note should be in the box the part comes in AND any written or oral comments concerning such should clearly be stated.

To tell someone it will fit and let it be perceived that no mod is required, is NOT good business ethics, I don't care who the company is.

"One size fits all" to me, falls into the lowest echelons of what I call good customer relations. Most successful businesses have known for eons, that the onus should never be on the customer. Rather on the company; since they are the ones that do the R & D (regardless or how minimul) and have the best "wherewithall" to do it right in the first place. NOT the customer.

carl

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 12 May 2003 7:13 am

The way I see it, is that:

1) George L's pickups are a 'one size fits most' solution, in that they have 'extra mounting tabs' etc, and will fit MOST guitars w/o major modification (i don't count breaking off the extra tabs as a modification, since they are designed that way -- like the insoles for yoru shoes,t aht you 'cut to size', or guitar strings that you have to cut the ends off when you put them in the tuning keys, since they are too long etc). TO me this tells me Geo. L is doing more than most guitar pickup MFR's are doing.... (try mounting a Dimarzio humbucker in a strat, or a duncan tele pickup in the bridge of a strat... you will be doing some MAJOR mods to the guitar!)
2) what I do find disturbing, is George L's lack of customer support. If you were trying to make a GL fit into a one-off made guitar by a home-builder type, then yes, I could see them saying 'talk to the mfr', but a Mullen is a fairly popular name brand. If I was having trouble with a Seymour Duncan single coil in a handmade guitar by the shop up the street, they wouldn't be able to help me (possibly), but If I said I was putting it in a Fender Strat, then they should know something.... at the VERY LEAST, they could have said "Here are the dimensions, or I'll fax them to you, or to the mfr, and lets see if we all can't figure this out together" (knowing it will help the next guy down the line etc... and since they are doing a 'universal style mounting', it would benefit them.
3) You always have the option of dealing with the 'custom shop' type of guys, such as Bill Lawrence, or Jerry Wallace. Sure they have 'off the shelf solutions', but one call/email etc to them about something that will fit an 'oddball' mounting, and sure they'll make it up for you, no questions asked, and in most cases, at no additional charge. To me, these are the BEST guys to deal with.
4) I'm surprised more guitar mfr's haven't went to more 'standard' mountings, IE, following either a ShoBud or Emmons 'standard' (although, since most of these guitars even though were mass produced, do have a few inconsistencies from one to another-- that's why some guys have the elongated mounting holes etc). After all, The 4 most popular 6 string guitar pickup types ARE a standard in spacing, size, hole mounting etc (Gibson Humbucker style, Fender Strat style, Fender Tele style and Gibson P90 style.) I can take my strat's neck pickup, and put it into an Anderson, or Kramer, Hamer, Valley Arts, any aftermarket body strat copy, any offshore made strat copy, virtually ANY 6 string of strat design or using a strat style single coil.)

-- Point is, George L's went to great efforts to make a 'universal' mounting, however it may not be perfect for ALL cases. The solution, hiowever would be that they shoudl be more willing to support the installation process in other guitars (esp. name brands!) in order for them to learn and grow and make their product even better. In any case, good customer service can make or break a company. Are Gateway computers really the best? Maybe not, but their customer service (as well as Dell's etc), have made them ultra-popular. People don't mind spending a couple extra $ when they know the person stands behind their product, and is more than willing to help you get the most from their product.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 12 May 2003 7:53 am

Maybe there are Mullen models out there with different pickup cavities or mounting styles. I installed two E66's in my Mullen with absolutely no problems, filing, or modifications whatsoever except for the aforementioned "reversed logo" due to the reversed screw-mount on the C6 neck.

For this anomaly, or lack of "standardization," I would lay the responsibility as much on Mullen as I would GeorgeL. George obviously designed the tab mounts to fit Sho-Buds, which had the two screw side always on the treble end, regardless of neck. Mullen decided to place the two-screw mount on the bass side of the C6 pickup.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jim Ives · Post by **Jim Ives** » 12 May 2003 4:14 pm

I sure hope the people at George L are getting all this.

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Sho-Bud Pro II D-10
Mullen D-10
Digitech DSP256 XL
Fender Stratocaster
Peavey and Evans

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 12 May 2003 9:05 pm

What I want to know is; how did anyone know that I just purchased a 2003 GMC YUKON on Good Friday? "Big John"

Do you think it will rain? http://community.webtv.net/eoniNui/BigJohnBechtels