Ricky D, Gino boutique steel tube amp?

Mike Marchelya · Post by **Mike Marchelya** » 25 Mar 2003 8:05 pm

Ricky, on another post you indicated your Twin has been modified. Have you done any experimentation with transformers, especially the OT? I've had a few discussions with a local amp tech regarding tube amps for pedal steel. After explaining the bass range demanded by a C-6/B-6 neck and my desire for plenty of headroom plus my love for that good old Fender tube sound, he had a couple of suggestions.

First of all, in his experience, LARGE transformers are necessary in a tube amp for bass output, especially when we're talking C-6/B-6 range. I was surprised to learn the output transformers in a blackface Fender Twin-Reverb are decent sized, but nowhere near the "big iron" used in some other Fenders. The transformers used in the "high-powered" tweed Twin of the late 50's are significantly bigger than those in TR's. Bigger still are the ones used in SOME of the blonde/maroon Twin-Amps (no reverb) of the early 60's. I say SOME because not all such Twins used the BIG OT.

NOTE: there is a Blonde Twin Output Transformer for sale on ebay. It is NOT one of the big OT's used in some of those Twins.

How do I know this? I have an original blonde Twin. The OT in it is MUCH bigger than the one for sale on ebay and bigger than the ones used in tweed twins. So why not just use the Twin? It has huge bottom end and LOADS of headroom, but the tone stack is more Hi-Fi than Twin Reverb. I could have the tone stack, etc. modified to Twin Reverb specs, but it's a collector's piece so I won't. Even if I did, it wouldn't be the thing to take out on a gig because of the rarity.

So... if only I had a second OT just like that one, I could put it in any blackface or silverface Twin Reverb, Dual Showman or Dual Showman Reverb and get that Fender sound plus I'd really increase the bass response (wouldn't that be nice through a 2-15 cabinet

) The good part is, I can score a decent Dual Showman Reverb for $300-$450 depending on condition, so it would kind of be a boutique steel amp at a really reasonable price. All I need is a second OT just like the one I've got... BUT... they're scarcer than hen's teeth...

Mercury Magnetics makes loads of replacement vintage transformers, but they don't make a big Twin unit because these things are so rare, they've never seen an example of a BIG Twin-Amp transformer to clone. Hey, I know where they can get one

If they only make one, it's gonna be about $300 bucks. If they can make six or seven, the price could be cut substantially. If anybody likes the Twin Reverb sound but wants more bass response, this could be the ticket. I'm thinking if we can get a few orders, I'll provide them specs on my OT so it can be cloned.

Anybody tried this before? Sorry if this has been discussed. If not, you heard it first on THE STEEL GUITAR FORUM!!! Thanks, guys.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 25 Mar 2003 10:31 pm

Hi Mike; I haven't tried any other OT in my Twin.....sounds interesting.....but I am completely happy with my Twin...and I cannot imagine a better sound coming out of my amp at this point.
I just replaced the tubes with Phillips tubes and it is now the most awesome sounding amp I've ever played through or heard...and I've played through them alllll.
My Twin is actually a 1970 silverface that has been redone to blackface specs..all the way...except I run a 15" speaker in there.
My Trasformer is HUGE; so I'll stick with it....and probably not do anything else to this amp...yeee haaa.
Have fun.
Lemme know what you come up with.
Ricky

Gino Iorfida · Post by **Gino Iorfida** » 25 Mar 2003 11:54 pm

Actually, the later 'twins' IMHO would be a better choice than one that is 'blackface' etc, since the blackface etc are more desired by the fact that they break up so nice (read rock and blues geetar

THe more 'hifi' sound of the silverface, and the changed put in to 'get rid of that nasty distortion' would tell me they woudl be better.

I think the silverface style phase inverter woudl be better for steel (read-- MORE HEADROOM), but I agree, the output transformer makes a MASSIVE difference in the response (the power transformer to some extent as well-- you ahve to be able to supply the power needed for the transients!). I personally have some issues with Mercury Magnetics products, and to be honest, they are geared more for 'overdrive' or a 'blackface fender tone'. Schumacher, Triad and others make some good hefty transformers. Hammond woud probably be the best bet, mainly because 1) they are overrated (in other words, I know guys who use their transformers rated at 30 watts for 50-60 watt amps etc), 2) they are very reasonably priced 3) can get them ANYWHERE, and 4) are built VERY solid 5) they are designed for 'hifi' type applications , but lend themselves well to guitar amps. Most of the schumacher, triad etc that would be exceptional, are most likely custom built for different boutique builders and the like, so you'd have to do some schmoozing to get one of them to part with one for you. Another option is this guy at www.handwoundtransformers.com -- he does one-off's of transformers, so if you can get some specs to him, he could fix you up. His prices are unbelieveably low, and from others I've talked to said they are GREAT transformers, although I hear his lead time is slooooooowwwwwww

The local guy oyu talked to wouldn't happen to be Bruce Collins of Mission Amps, would it? If so, I would HIGHLY recommend him to you. He is in the 'Arvada area I think. His knowledge and experience with Fender amps in my opinion, well, he IS the best, ANYWHERE! Very knowledgeable man, EXTREMELY helpful, and well, you know the rest...
.. in other words, fi you WEREN'T talking with Bruce, I recommend you give him a call![This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 26 March 2003 at 12:00 AM.][This message was edited by Gino Iorfida on 26 March 2003 at 12:06 AM.]

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 26 Mar 2003 2:24 am

A friend of mine has a Mission Tweed Deluxe copy and it is superb.
You might look into an OT from a Fender Dual Professional (The Custom Shop model). I've got one and the OT is huge. You also might give Larry Rodgers a call http://rodgersamps.com/Contacts.htm
He knows a lot about this stuff and has a good "transformer connection" with Fender.
I've also found that using 6550's in my '66 TR (two that is, just beef-up the screen resistors) with a D-130, is the sweetest steel amp I've ever heard. Lots of bottom end.

Mike Marchelya · Post by **Mike Marchelya** » 26 Mar 2003 7:46 am

Just the kind of info I was looking for, so thanks very much Gino, Ricky and Cartwright. The blonde Twin-Amp I have would probably be perfect for many steel players but is actually too clean for my tastes. I do like the massive, clear bottom end it produces, hence the search for the bigger OT. It won't be tough to install, and if I can find something at a reasonable price I still won't have much invested in a decent amp. Gino, I'll be giving Bruce a call today. I'll let him know you recommended him and I'll keep you guys posted on the results. Thanks again.