Digital Recorder questions and opinions

Brad Burch · Post by **Brad Burch** » 13 Dec 2002 10:36 am

I'm looking into the newest digital workstations that are out now and I was wondering what you guys opinions on the different models were. I have been looking and the new BOSS BR-1180CD and it looks like a winner to me for the price. I know alot of people use the Roland VS series of recorders but I've heard that the learning curve is tremendously steep on those. With the BOSS I especially like the all-in-one-package concept with internal 20gig hard drive and CD burner. The interface is supposed to be very intuitive.
Here is a link to the specs: http://www.acousticfingerstyle.com/Boss1180.htm

URL edited because size affected scrolling - Joey
[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 28 December 2002 at 06:41 AM.]

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 13 Dec 2002 11:20 am

Looks good. Only two XLR mic inputs so you couldn't track a lot of multi-mic live stuff. But if that's not your use model then this would be great. Nice price too. I think it's a wise choice to learn on these kinds boxes before trying to jump to the computer only solutions. You'll get good results easily and good ROI for a number of years of fun.
chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.seldomfed.com

Post by **Joey Ace** » 13 Dec 2002 12:38 pm

I'm very happy with my Tascam 788.
You can get a lot of info on their user forum http://www.tascam.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=18
Use the SEARCH function there and you'll find a lot of info.

I don't have experience with the Boss unit you're asking about.

The 788 is 8 tracks, 250 virtual tracks. 10GB HD, but can be upgraded to 80GB. You can sync two of them if you decide you want 16 tracks later.

Hoot Gibson has some great songs on MP3.com, recorded on a 788. Mike Johnson on Steel.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/339/hoot_gibson.html
[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 13 December 2002 at 12:40 PM.]

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 13 Dec 2002 1:00 pm

I have the Boss BR-8 recorder and for home recording stuff it's great. Really easy to use, I did 3 or 4 tracks in the first hour I had it out of the box. The 1180 would be the one to go with IMHO.
JE:-)>

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 13 Dec 2002 2:33 pm

I don't own one, but the Fostex VF160 with CDR is even cheaper and has 16 instead of 10 tracks, although its only 16 bit.

Link:
http://www.music123.com/Item/?itemno=41726

I have ADATs, I am sticking with them until 24/96 comes down in price, then I might jump.

Having said that, speakers are and always will be the weak link in the signal chain, and I would want to test for audible difference prior to buying 24/96. At some point, the recorder resolution is so far past the speaker resolution, why upgrade?

The new stuff is more compact though, compare 2 ADATS and a mixer to one of those workstations!

[Large Link edited because it affected scrolling -Joey][This message was edited by Joey Ace on 28 December 2002 at 06:44 AM.]

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 13 Dec 2002 6:46 pm

Whatever you buy make sure you get a compatible CD burner with it. You will need it, both to back up data in the machine, and to burn audio CDs. (There is a difference.) Most of the digital portastudio makers have designed them so that basically only their CD burners will work with their machines.

Two general comments:
1) I don't know how anyone ever did anything with less than 4 tracks. (Yes, I have heard Sgt. Pepper.)
2) I don't know how anyone ever did anything with tape. (Once you get a digital studio with options like cut, copy, paste, etc. you'll see why.)

More comments, some of which I have not verified.........

I have heard that the Boss/Roland machines have a steep learning curve.

The BR-1180 I believe only allows recording on a maximum of 2 tracks at once. If you want to piece your own stuff together one instrument at a time it's probably oK. If you want to record a whole band with multiple mics, you're in trouble unless you get an external mixing board.

I have heard that the Boss/Roland on board effects are better than some of the other brands.

Some units use Zip drives or something else to store data. I personally would not consider these units. You are going to start filling up Zip disks at an alarming rate.

Recording time at 16 bits is roughly 5 Meg bytes per track minute. So for a song with 8 tracks that lasts 1 minute it would take up 40 Meg bytes. This varies from machine to machine according to several factors and is only meant as a guide. Also, read the specs for recording time carefully in the manuals and data sheets.

The winter NAMM show is coming up. You may want to see what there is that's new before you decide.

My own opinion: I don't think you would be sorry if you bought a Tascam 788.

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Artie McEwan

Tim Sergent · Post by **Tim Sergent** » 13 Dec 2002 7:06 pm

I'm looking at a Yamaha AW16G right now. 16 tracks, built-in CD burner plus a lot of other goodies. $1100.00!!!! Not bad for 16 tracks and the Yamaha sound (not compressed) and Yamaha name

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 16 Dec 2002 7:56 am

I went with a KORG D1600 about a year ago.
Extra easy to navigate around with the
"touch screen" (similar to those on the
Korg Triton workstations). Effects are
top notch (especially reverbs). Also no
compression when recording. Four XLR inputs
& 16 seperate channels. You can record in
either 16 bit or 24 bit. Burner included &
40 GB hard drive.

Rick Barber · Post by **Rick Barber** » 25 Dec 2002 3:17 am

I recommend the Mark of the Unicorn MOTU 896 with firewire connection to an iMac computer.

Check out the motu.com site before you decide. This is a 24 bit machine.

Rick Barber

DroopyPawn · Post by **DroopyPawn** » 27 Dec 2002 7:24 pm

DON'T BUY AN ALL-IN-ONE RECORDING BOX unless you need to record a multi track gig with. You'll be much happier with a computer bassed system. Cakewalk Sonar XL is excellent. You can edit all you tunes one note at a time, use pitch correction on vocals et all, use compressor limiters, eq, reverbs, delays, and anything else you can think of on any track. All of your music will be right in front of you and in digital. You can mixdown to any format you can think of. And you can probably do all this on the computer you already have.

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Gary Shepherd
Sierra Session 12
www.16tracks.com

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Dec 2002 4:49 am

I have been using a BOSS BR8 that I bought off of EBAY for $400 and find it quite nice and very easy to use. The 1180 is a step up but do keep in mind that the BOSS units are intended for a single musician session, not multitracking several Instruments at the same time. The first recpording I made was done while I was watching the Instruction video, it took less than 10 minutes and that included the playing the guitar part as well.

The BR8 uses ancient technology zip disks which will allow two full songs per disk and I pay about $1.50 per disk off of EBAY as well.

On the BOSS forum the only complaint I have seen abaout the 1180 is the on board drum machine in that it is not easy to use at first.

I have also used the Tascam 788 and find that to also be a very nice machine but my opinion is that it is not as intuitive as the BOSS machines, but that could just be me as the 788 are also very fine.

You really can't go wrong with any of the DIGITAL machines as they all basicaaly do the same functions, cut, paste, record, edit effects,master..and some have direct CD's on board.

I transfer all of the BR8 mastered tunes to my PC and record them as 44.1khz wave files and burn CD's from there. I am not sure I would want the CD onboard the recorder..but thats just my view.

The Boss units also have an on board guitar tuner which I also find very useful.

One final thought, when recording digital vs analog ther is a huge difference in headroom. If you get too hot past the 0db on the digital recorder you will generate digital distortion unlike analog. With a little practice and seat time you can and will make excellent quality recordings right there in your practice room.

Here's a track I did several months ago on the BR8, you will hear just a tad of peak digital distortion as I was and am still getting better at it. Also, all the Instruments were recorded direct with patches that I wrote on the BR8,which will be the same for the 1180.

Good luck..
tp

Long Black Limousine

Post by **Joey Ace** » 28 Dec 2002 6:48 am

I like the "all in a box" concept.
I like to have familiar buttons to press.

After you have the recording, you can transfer it to yor computer for further editing.

I'm sure the other units are good, but I am very happy with my Tascam 788. They also have a great support forum.
specs at www.tascam.com

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 28 Dec 2002 8:30 am

Somewhere on the Tascam 788 forum there is an extensive article/post comparing stand alone systems versus PC based ones. I have it printed out at home but don't know where it is on the forum. Try doing a search there. It was at least 1 1/2 years ago.

I'm an old fashioned dinosaur so I'd prefer a stand alone system. But there are some good points in what Droopy says as well.

Droopy: There is merit in what you say about PC based systems. One big advantage that I see is being able to expand or change things in the future. What would it cost someone to get going with a PC based system? Let's assume something similar to a Tascam 788 (good but not super elaborate):
PC, hard drive, keyboard, monitor, etc.
CD burner
Plug in cards and software
8 tracks
On board effects (2 separate processors)
Anything else?

Thanks.

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Artie McEwan

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Dec 2002 10:49 am

There really is no fair comparison between stand alone workstations which allow you to travel with them, go anywhere..etc..you bring it to the musician. PC based systems which can get really HI end and HI tech are fixed. You go to it.

Several years back I did have a PC based Cakewalk Pro full midi system with 8 track synch. 16 channel board all the outboard gear and sound modules that I could afford etc...It was very nice and the results were also real nice but man it took up a lot of space., 1/2 my room.

I personally like them both but for now the complete workstation is a real cool deal..very flexible and very nice performance for the money.And very little.

two different worlds as they should be.
tp

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 28 Dec 2002 3:08 pm

With that Korg D1600 you can import and
export wav files. So, you can dump stuff
from the recorder into the computer if
you need to "diddle" with it there.