Equalizers

Lefty Schrage · Post by **Lefty Schrage** » 11 Dec 2002 6:59 am

Are any of you guys using an equalizer to supplement the tone settings on your pre-amp? (I checked the Forum's archives but couldn't find much discussion on this topic.) I'm wondering whether a 31-band EQ could be used effectively to reduce specific high frequencies that cause a problem in certain venues--without adversely affecting tone or adding 'noise.'

Would appreciate hearing your opinions. ...Lefty

Whip Lashaway · Post by **Whip Lashaway** » 11 Dec 2002 11:18 am

Years ago my band opened a show with Jimmy Crawford playing for Radney Foster. He was using an EQ on his rig so it's been done. Couldn't tell you the particulars on it though, just that he sounded GREAT.
Good Luck.
Whip

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 11 Dec 2002 2:30 pm

If I remember right, Buddy Emmons used a graphic EQ several years ago.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 11 Dec 2002 8:34 pm

Hi Lefty....
Furman has reissued the PQ-3. I found an original used one in Iowa City. I'm very happy with it. And it's super quiet. It gives you the capability of choosing a particular frequency...then boost it or cut it...then spread it and overlap it into the other frequencies. It also has a bypass switch and a volume pot to boost the preamp. I've experimented with the high end and currently rolling the session 400 presence off and fine tuning it back into the amp via the Furman. I can stay just below the raspy overtones. I get a wild hair and experiment sometimes. So it may take on a different approach next time. It's very complimentary when trying to zero in on specific frequencies to mold your tone.
Dennis

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 12 Dec 2002 4:33 am

Pro sound men always use at least one, and often they will have a spectrum analyser too, so that they can find the what the room is actually doing to the sound, then boost and cut until it sounds how it should.
They normally do that during the sound test, in an empty hall, and then tweak it by ear when the crowd arrive and change all the acoustics completely.
Cheers
Dave

Robert Parent · Post by **Robert Parent** » 12 Dec 2002 10:10 am

For several years I used a MXR 10 band Eq with very good results. A couple years back I went mostly to a rack system and sold all of the prior setup except the Music Man amp(s).

Ten bands were enough for my setup at the time and it was very easy to adjust.

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 12 Dec 2002 12:22 pm

Lefty,
I use a little EQ most all the time. Right now I'm just using an older MXR 6-band. I used to place it between the guitar and the volume pedal, but now use it "after" the volume pedal before my rack. I find it gives me a little more control over my sound in the studio and when I play live I can use it to "touch up" the Hi's and Lo's". I believe Buddy once said that he used it to "pick up where the amp leaves off." I have found this to be the case for me, too.
I'm not necessarily recommending the MXR, there are much better units available, but I do like using a little Eq of some type, most all the time, to touch up my sound. It really seems to help with recording direct too.

IMHO,
Dave<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Dave Robbins on 12 December 2002 at 12:24 PM.]</p></FONT>

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 12 Dec 2002 12:41 pm

What about using one in front of a Evans preamp recording direct

Tony

Lefty Schrage · Post by **Lefty Schrage** » 12 Dec 2002 12:41 pm

Thanks to all of you for responding with helpful information! I would appreciate hearing from any others who are using (or have used) equalizers. ...Lefty

David Spires · Post by **David Spires** » 12 Dec 2002 3:02 pm

Hey Lefty,

I have a Berhinger Stereo 31-Band EQ in my rack system. It does give you a whole new set of options for tweaking your tone. The first thing I learned with it, was I didn't have a clue of how to set it! I have grown to use it again as a slight modification of what I hear from the speakers. Mine is after the pre-amp section.

In the end, is it worth the EQ difference to me - to carry two more rack spaces of gear?

I'm undecided right now. Currently, I've gone to using the POD XT (very minimalistic), and am enjoying the portability of that setup.

To Gear or Not To Gear... Hmmmm...

Dave Spires

Bill Terry · Post by **Bill Terry** » 12 Dec 2002 3:54 pm

I think an EQ can be helpful in tweaking the amp sound to some degree, particularly compensating for on-stage acoustics, but every amplifier has a 'voicing' that is intrinsic.

IMO you can't really do much with an equalizer to change that. It's why Fender amps sound like Fender amps, Marshalls like Marshalls, etc.

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Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 12 Dec 2002 4:35 pm

I use a two-channel 15 band EQ, and my favorite button is the one that says "bypass." "Cause I don't know how to set it!

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 12 Dec 2002 4:50 pm

Bill, you on right on. Instrument amplifiers have their own EQ that is far from flat. Instruments don't sound good flat. Here is a link to a tone control page that even has a simulator application to show the frequency response with tone control setting on various amps.

http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/tonestack.html

Unfortunately you can get many bad sounds out of a versatile EQ too. I have used EQs on guitar and steel on and off over the years. I recommend moderation in the settings.

Regards,
Terry

Chuck Norris · Post by **Chuck Norris** » 16 Dec 2002 2:25 am

Parametric EQ. year`s ago I learned as Buddy Emmons has said mid`s is everything get into the right area on mid`s and do with it what you will[most cut] then treble and bass to taste.
Parametric EQ is the best way to tune that in.
A lot of classic amp sound`s old and new are in character with where there mid`s are. I just bought a new amp to play bass, it`s a Peavey Pro 500 with full 3 band parametric EQ finally the ultimate bass amp.
Furman makes a great one,TC electronics made a killer one but expensive and I heard they discontinued it.
Chuck Norris NFM

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 16 Dec 2002 11:01 am

Chuck,
you hit it square on the head! It is all about the mids, either what you like or don't like. Control of the mids is what contours the sound,IMHO. In a conversation I once had with Buddy sometime ago he said that "mids are the whole ball game!"

If you have a guitar that has really good mids, like the Emmons for example, you can make those mids work for you. I think the mids are the basic sound of the guitar and determine whether the sound of that guitar is going to get out there or not and what it is going to sound like when it gets there! Some guitars have pleasing mids and some don't. How you control them and make them work for you is how you're going to get that sound your after. I've heard Buddy on many different guitars, but the tone he gets from all of them always seems to sound similar, because he knows what he wants and knows how to go after it. I have heard him use terms like "softening the hi's", not wanting it to sound "woofie," and sweetening the mids," etc, all in reference to what he is trying to get at the time. (and no one does it better than Buddy!)

No amp is perfect certainly, (the Standell mabe as close as it will ever get), and useage of that little extra bit of EQ can help to tailor that sound your after. So, whether you are going "direct" or playing through an "amp" the equalizer can really be a helpful tool in tailoring your sound where it will "tickle your ear!"

(Of course, I have also heard it can cause cancer in "rats" too...but doesn't everything?..oops!.. that's another story...Sorry!)

Dave

Lefty Schrage · Post by **Lefty Schrage** » 16 Dec 2002 6:15 pm

Thanks to all of you who responded, I'm getting a better sense of the direction I need to pursue. Appreciate your input. ...Lefty

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 16 Dec 2002 6:58 pm

Lefty, good to see my friend is alive and well! Let me give you some "old school" advise from experience. Many times tone quality in different rooms has more to do with band instrument volume levels, and your ability to hear your instrument, than it does with complicated EQ mixers. If the band is playing loud in the mix, or if you can't hear yourself all that dominate in the mix, the tone of your sound will play tricks with your mind. I have been in "many" band stand situations where my steel sounded terrible, and I couldn't get it sounding acceptable no matter how many knobs I turned. It took years and years to learn this: You got to hear yourself really good to be happy with your tone. The solution for me has been to point my two amps directly at my head. Most of the time I don't have the amps pointing out at the audience. I put them in front of me and point them back at me. I got that idea a few years ago from Dave Musgrave when he was playing for Ray Price. I noticed his two amps were on either side of him, right next to him, and pointed at his head. That way I am never to loud. I can always hear "me" in the mix over the other loud band instruments. It did wonders for my tone, and no one ever tells me I am to loud. I don't do this at the show in Iowa because it is a big hall and I don't think the amps are miked. You have heard of an "old wife's simple home cure for an illness"? Try this simple cure for your tone problems---put your amps in front of you, and point them back at you. Tilt them up where they point toward your head. You will be amazed at how much better you can hear. It worked wonders for me! Lefty, I'm looking for a used 4 wheel drive John Deere tractor with a cab. Have any suggestions--no kidding?

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 17 Dec 2002 2:34 am

Keith,
you make some valid points!

However, my use of an Eq doesn't have anything to do with any of that. I've just never found "any" amp that could give me a perfect response even in the best of situations. Every room is a little different and I guess I'm just looking for something a little better than what is available in current amp designs.

As for turning an amp around and having it face me? Yuk! I hate that sound! All those hi's hittin ya right in the face! And, I can't get a realistic idea of what my sound is doing in the house/room with it like that. With an amp facing you, no doubt you are going to play at a lower. You might even have to be mic'd, then that puts your sound in the hands of someone else! Besides, I want the front of my amp heard by the audience, not the back!

At the Opry, we used to have to play with the amp's speaker facing us. We could never get a sound we could live with that way. We have now switched and have the speaker behind us and everyone seems to be much happier with it that way. It seems much more realistic and we don't have that sterile, "in your face" sound to deal with. However, all the guitar guys JimmyCapps, Spider, Kerry, Hoot, are still playing with their amps facing them (behind the rail).

I will say though that I have played with the amp(s) facing me in certain situations where volume was an issue. It was much harder for me to dial in the sound. My results were that the tone from a speaker facing me was so much brighter that I was cutting the hi's back trying to warm it up. I wound up having to be mic'd "and" then the tone was "muddy" out front.

Now, if an amp could be made that could be voiced in such a way that it didn't sound so sterile and brittle facing us and could give us a good warm sound, you might have something! Of course...we'd still have to deal with that engineer!

The one place I haven't seemed to need an Eq is at the Opry. But, we play through a Webb system there which has a Eq built-in, in addition to the other basic tone controls. That is a great idea! Wish my Peaveys had that.

Oh well, that Standell idea keeps sounding better to me all the time!

Dave

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 17 Dec 2002 7:44 am

Dave,

Standel idea?

bob

Dave Robbins · Post by **Dave Robbins** » 17 Dec 2002 12:06 pm

Bob,
in my opinion, and that's what all this is really anyway is just "opinions," there has never been an amp that has reproduced the steel as well as the "STANDEL" (forgive my poor spelling and lack of coffee

). They are the sound that launched a 1,000 ships, so to speak. They were low on power by today's standards, but, "Buddy's" new Standel may be the "ultimate" steel amp! Power and tone! I just wish I could afford one, too! I have four amps and if I sold them all I still wouldn't have enough money to buy just one new "Standel!"

More coffee!...now where's that dictionary...

Dave