Have U used a Tube OR Mic tube preamp on steel?

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 21 Nov 2002 6:45 pm

How many of you guys have tried this, And is it worth it or not? I'v had many people to ask me this same question. And what would be the best brand of any on the market? Anyone who has this same interest please respond. Lets hear all the Pro's + Con's. Thanks!

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 22 Nov 2002 6:52 am

Gary, I tried the ART TPS tube preamp before my Nashville 400 and I didn't notice any startling difference in tone. So I took it back.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 22 Nov 2002 7:07 am

I think the best difference is to notice, when using one, going right into the power amp.
There a inexpensive tube mike-pre-amps on the market. You should try a behringer, and compare it with other brands...

Post by **b0b** » 22 Nov 2002 7:47 am

Gary, you should know better! This topic belongs in Electronics. I'm moving it now.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 22 Nov 2002 8:52 am

I have a cheapo Presonus BlueTube preamp. I use it only when recording. What I do, is split the signal to my Silverface Fender Prnceton Reverb, mic that signal back to the board, and on the other side of the split, I run it through the BlueTube and directly to the board. Then I blend the two seperate tracks upon mixdown. Sound pretty nice to me for a unit that cost less than $150.

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 22 Nov 2002 9:45 am

And what would be the best brand of any on the market?

Probably the Millennia SST-1:

http://www.mil-media.com/docs/products/origin.shtml

it has selectable tube or solid-state preamp circuits, selectable tube or solid-state compressor/eq circuits and a choice of routing through an audio path transformer or not.

At $2900, it's a little out of my price range so I have a Demeter tube bass pre in the rack.
[This message was edited by chas smith on 22 November 2002 at 09:47 AM.]

mike nolan · Post by **mike nolan** » 22 Nov 2002 12:58 pm

Tube gear is good for adding "character" to recordings. That usually means a bit of distortion. What to use depends on the situation. Steel players often want super clean sounds with low noise....which is generally not what you are going for when you reach for the tube gear. It would be helpful if you explained what sound you were after in your recordings.
I own tube mics from Soundelux and Neumann. I own tube pre's and processors from Manley, Avalon, Demeter, and Summit. I like 'em all for different things. For steel,however, I usually go for a U87 and or sm57 through a high end class A solid state pre, like an Amek 9098, then an opto compressor. Mic choice always depends on factors like the room and the particular amp, and different mic/pre combinations can produce radically different sounds.
The Avalon stuff is nice direct.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 22 Nov 2002 4:00 pm

Gary,
I'm using a few different preamps..Some tube and some not...The tube ones I use would be the Peavey VMP 2, and an Alembic Pre that is basically a Blackface Fender setup that is biamped and has a couple of switches on it for brite, and deep...Great sounding pre !!...Jim

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 22 Nov 2002 4:19 pm

Gary,
I almost forgot ....Mesa Boogie also has a couple of different tube pre's that sound great also...I have the older Studio model that sounds great ...If you adjust the tube preamp to the point where it doesn't give you an overdrive tone, but just enough without major distortion, the tone is rich and full without sounding harsh..It's a very FAT full sound that really is nice...Sometimes you need to cut thru in a mix, and you really need a brighter sound...Solid State mic pre's work well for that ....Solid State pre's can get louder, because they can stay cleaner, but once you hear the tone of a tube setup on your steel, you will have a big grin on your face.
Not that tube is better, it's just another color to use while you're painting the picture

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 22 Nov 2002 11:29 pm

I don't mean to sound too negative here, however; I've tried two Peavey TMP–1's and in both cases, after playing for only a few minute the green LED lights came n and never went off again, even after unpluging everything and turning the unit of and back on, the green lights came on again with everything still unpluged! In both cases, needless to say, I returned them both and reverted back to no tube simulation for me. Distortion was about the only change that I ever noticed, which was undesireable to me! "Big John"

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 24 Nov 2002 4:41 am

I'm using a Mesa Boogie Studio Pre which is an analog, tube preamp. Fat...warm... awesome tone. I also use a VHT 2-90-2 tube power amp which is the best sounding power amp on the planet...

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God Bless,
Steve
John 3:16

Dennis Detweiler · Post by **Dennis Detweiler** » 24 Nov 2002 7:01 am

The ultimate Peavey unit would be a rack mount tube preamp with digital delay built into it. One that could be played directly into our existing Peavey steel amps and still get that 59 bassman tone?
Just a thought from la-la land

Dennis

Chuck Norris · Post by **Chuck Norris** » 24 Nov 2002 9:54 am

Dennis, a Peavey Tube Sweetener and a Deltafex, two rackspaces but hey lot`s of variety and inexpensive in the scheme of thing`s.
Chuck Norris NFM

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 24 Nov 2002 11:16 am

Yes...FWIW
I have tried a tube preamp. For grins, I got to use an all tube class A combination mic pre/comp/eq in front of a Peavey powered extension cabinet. (15 inch BW 300watts)
I really like the sound. My comparison is a Peavey S2000. Same cabinet, power amp, same speaker.
A studio quality "front end" makes a big difference. This gear is heavy and expensive but it sounds great. Highs sparkle, bass is all there with clean separtion between the low strings.

So what am I gonna do? Stay with the S2000, and use the good stuff when I can.

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Fender Stringmaster T-8
Fender Custom D-8
8 string Benoit
Peavey Amps

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 24 Nov 2002 6:46 pm

I use the Tube Works 9002 Real Tube 2 preamp. Tone to the bone! A trick someone taught me is to run the power amp wide open so you keep the pre-amp fairly low (less than 12:00). I'm not sure about the distortion claim, perhaps the tube sound is inherently distorted but pleasantly so. I don't hear distortion out of my rig at normal volumes. It's pretty close to the blackface Fender Twin sound, without the weight and maintenance hassles.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 25 Nov 2002 6:33 am

Steve

I have heard about the VHT 2.90.2. What about speakers/cabinets?

Ron

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 25 Nov 2002 8:17 am

The tube mic preamps by Manley are great sounding. Very clean, hi-fidelity stuff, not too over-colored but still has that natural open warm tube sound. I still love the old Telefunken V76 or V72 mic preamps from the early '60s. Now these are very colored but oh so musical. What's really beautiful sounding on Steel is a Lawson L-47 which is a tube condenser mic cloned after the old Neumann U-47. Placed about a foot or two from the amp, slightly off axis from the "beam" of the speaker. Wow! Tubes are so great on guitars. Actually what I've been liking is a Fender Deluxe Reverb from the '60s and getting a tube sound right off the bat. Then using a Coles ribbon microphone, not too close, into a Telefunken V76. Again, wow! I've also run that same mic into a solid state class A API mic preamp. Great combo as well.

To comment on the cheapo "tube" mic preamps. Well I have a problem with those for a number of reasons. First of all, most of them aren't true "tube" mic preamps. To be a true tube pre, the incoming signal has to go right into the transformer and DIRECTLY to the tube. That's how the magic happens. Most of the cheapos are actually cheap transformerless solid state preamps with an underpowered tube somewhere else in the signal path. False advertising if you ask me. But to be fair, some of those cheapos sound pretty darn decent for the price.

Brad Sarno

John Macy · Post by **John Macy** » 25 Nov 2002 8:29 am

Brad,

Nice post, and I love the 47 tube on the steel (I have an original). Lately, my favorite has been a Sony C37A tube mic--outstanding! I was mainly using my Coles and Royer stuff on amps til I got the Sony. I tend to prefer a solid state preamp (class A discrete, of course

) with a tube mic.

Most of the cheap tube pre's sound pretty underwhelming to me, though I used one of those new ART tube preamps with the tube voicing switch at a studio last week, and it sounded pretty good for what it was.

When I go to sessions that I feel will appreciate it, I usually take a pre/mic setup (usually a Neve 1073 and the Sony), and hand the engineer the sound ready to go to tape. A lot of people are doing that this day--I think Mike Johnson is carrying a Neve 1272 pre and his own mic (a Sennheiser 421, I believe) for sessions. It will assure your tone at least makes it to the basics--whatever happens after that can be anybody's guess. Most engineers I work with really appreciate you handing them the tone on a platter--makes their life easier.