Totally CLEAN sound wanted!

ollir · Post by **ollir** » 20 Sep 2002 7:55 am

Hi everybody! I'm having hard times trying to get a really clean and bright sound out of my Sho Bud Pro III. My amp is a Fender Deluxe which I actually bought because of its strong clean sound. It worked well with my Strat but when playing with steelguitar it's impossible to get a totally CLEAN and bright sound out of it.

I tested my steel with other amps also..Fender Twin managed the best in avoiding the lightly distorded sound. But I'm looking for the sound that is like Franklin Jr has - totally clean, strong and bright sound. I think it's not too much to ask.

I was wondering if the pickup of the E9 neck could somehow be responsible for the light natural overdrive sound. The pickups of my steel are propably originals from 70's.

Could the answer be new pickups manufactured with todays technology? Or shall I switch my amp? Thank you already!

Olli

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 20 Sep 2002 8:32 am

Sounds like an amp problem to me.
What sounds clean on an electric guitar is not necessarily what sounds clean with steel.
Especially at higher volume levels.
Get a new, powerful amp.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 20 Sep 2002 8:58 am

Ollir,
Try to get more distance between the pick-up and the strings first, also: what happens if you play with your volumepedal halfway?
If it still distorts, it's probably the amp.
Good Luck, and make your reservation for Steeldays 2002!
regards, Johan

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my web-site
my bands CODand TSC

Jack Francis · Post by **Jack Francis** » 20 Sep 2002 10:49 am

I think that you'd be happier with an amp designed for steel.
I have a Twin, a Seymour Duncan 50 watt tube
amp and a Nashville 400.
No comparison, the Peavey was designed to work with steels and it shows! (In my humble opinion.)
Jack Francis
P.S. A friend of mine plays in Finland and Sweden a few times a year. Check out THE CHUCK HALL BAND if you get a chance. Awesome picker! (If you can dig the blues!)[This message was edited by Jack Francis on 20 September 2002 at 12:17 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 20 Sep 2002 12:18 pm

Have you tried plugging into the 2nd input on the deluxe ? The 2nd input is buffered a bit and might solve your problem.

I use an old Deluxe that sounds great and plenty clean. I need a more powerful amp though for some gigs.

Bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Sep 2002 12:29 pm

My thought would be the Deluxe , being only a 40 W amp,which is great for a Strat or Tele', even an LP for that fact, but may not be strong enough even on it's best day for a Steel, especially on the low end. If the tubes are stressed it would even be more of an issue for clarity. I use a Deluxe for my Tele' and like it fine, and I practice with the Deluxe with both my Sho-Bud and Carter, at low to kinda moderate volume it is fine , very clear and way to bright but it is not fine when it needs to crank out the big chords or at higher volume. On gigs I carry the deluxe for the Tele' and a N1000 for the steel. I'm a two amp kinda guy, it's just easier and faster to bring the Deluxe instead of fooling around with Nashville 1000
to adjust for the Tele' , I'm real picky' ...hey is that a pun ?

just a thought
tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 September 2002 at 01:32 PM.]

Joe Smith · Post by **Joe Smith** » 20 Sep 2002 1:15 pm

I don't think it's the amp. It could be that the pickups in the steel are just overdriving the front end of the amp. I have a tube amp that has two 6L6s in the Output. It puts out about 25 watts and I get a very clean sound. I would try Bob and Johan's idea first. Also make sure that all the tubes are OK. Unless you are playing really loud, it should work just fine.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Sep 2002 1:33 pm

Joe didn't say he's playing thru a Standel.

And that little amp does really sound fine.

Fender amps with old tubes are historic for
poor performance , distortion , poor tone etc.. yada yada yada.

Lots of suggestions here , possibly one has hit home.

The second inputs of most common amps have a 10 DB cut for very strong signal devices like keyboards that may distort or overdrive the main input. A normal input device like a guitar would have a substantial decrease in overall gain using the second input, but true , it most likely would not distort.

Pickup height from the pole magnet to the string should be approx the distance of two quarters stacked, whatever that is. I learnt' that from John Fabian.
tp

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 September 2002 at 02:50 PM.]

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 20 Sep 2002 4:19 pm

I wouldn't play without at least 200 watts, solid state and a 15" black widow. That's got to be clean.

Rex Thomas · Post by **Rex Thomas** » 20 Sep 2002 5:24 pm

...and on that, Frank; I'm in TOTAL agreement with you.

Post by **b0b** » 20 Sep 2002 7:47 pm

That small amount of distortion is characteristic of most tube amps. To get clean, use a high-powered solid state amp.

I once plugged my Webb into a dummy load, ran a sine wave generator into it and watched the waveform on an scope. Got it up to well over 200 watts RMS before the waveform started flattening on the top. That level of continuous sound would be downright painful if it were coming from a speaker.

In contrast, a tube amp will flatten the waveform gently, causing a slight distortion of the wave peaks. A Fender Deluxe like yours will hit the peak level on nearly every attack. It doesn't have enough power to avoid distortion.

An additional factor is the input tube. This is typically set for guitar pickups, which have less gain than steel pickups.

I'm moving this topic to the 'Electronics' section of the Forum, where it belongs.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/coolb0b2.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 21 Sep 2002 8:07 am

Olli,
Look down this electronics section to the topic "Amps for PSG." There are several postings there describing amps people have had good experiences with and why. I put a post there trying to explain what is unique about amping a steel and how the amps made especially for steel, like the Peavey Nashville 400, are engineered to handle the problems.

I started out back in the '70s with a blackface Fender Super Reverb with 45 watts and a 15" JBL speaker. It had a nice fat tube sound at low volume, but just didn't have the power for clean sound at moderate to high volumes.

Short answer is that you need to get an amp made for steel.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 21 Sep 2002 8:27 am

Ollir,
You mentioned PF's recorded tone as the sound you like. If you listen closely you will hear that his sound is not totally clean. His playing is clean but the sound from his amp tends to have a bit of grit in it.

Bob

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 23 Sep 2002 8:14 am

I invite you to try out a Peavey Nashville 400 should you get the chance. From our past experience in designing and manufacturing steel guitar amps, an amp rated at 200 watts and above seems well suited for the required frequency range of the steel, regardless of the tuning.

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 23 Sep 2002 8:46 am

Please see my post entitled "Tonal Earvana"

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 23 Sep 2002 9:39 am

I read on the Forum somewhere that Lloyd Green played through a Deluxe on his Moody River LP. I can't imagine a better sound.

Matt Martin · Post by **Matt Martin** » 23 Sep 2002 12:17 pm

Hey Ollir, I just hooked mine into my new "Emerson" home hi fi system. I'm pretty sure we can close this subject up totally. I'll even bet BoB could even close down this section of the forum with this suggestion.
What say BoB???

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Sep 2002 5:09 am

I agree with most of the others'....get a steel amp!

Tom Hodgin · Post by **Tom Hodgin** » 29 Sep 2002 7:06 pm

Ollir, I just got a Webb amp...you want Clean, you got it my friend...I played two shows this past week-end and had 0 complaints on my playing and many on my new sound....if I were playing a nightclub I would use my session 400, but for two-step redneck gigs this amp is a rear-end kicker...good luck...tom