Direct Amp to Board or Mic it?

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

What are the pros and cons of mic'ing the amp and running direct line from amp to board? I assume that mic'ing the amp picks up the tone of the speaker and is more tone accurate through the mains? The direct method is cleaner?
What's your preference? What brand of mic?
Or maybe an electronic collar on the sound man?
Dennis

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think it depends on how much you like the sound of your power amp and speaker. To me, they are a part of the musical instrument.

A large part of performing is in controlling the wooly beast we call "tone". If you have a high confidence that the tone from your preamp is representative of what you want the audience to hear, and that it will not be changed significantly by the board, then direct is the way to go.

I like my power amp and speakers a lot, though. The speakers in particular are an essential ingredient of "my sound". I want to give the sound engineer something real close to the sound I would like to hear in the finished product (out front or on record).

I'm using a pair of SM-57's on stage these days. In the studio, I let the engineer pick the mics. I resist going direct unless it's absolutely necessary for technical reasons.

The usual disclaimer: I am NOT a professional musician.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Stephen Gambrell · From: Over there

I'm not a pro either, but I've tried miking my amp(s), and running them direct, and miking is better, especially if the sound man is your brother-in-law!

Rex Thomas · From: Thompson's Station, TN

I'm with b0b on the mics, especially the SM-57 live. But recently, I got surprisingly good results using my Nashville 1000's line out (live). Not all the guys have reported good results with the 1000 line out though. I guess the moon was in the right position, dunno.
I still like the SM-57 in the studio, but lately I've been using a Pod Pro for my steel & it sounds GREAT.
That's my report, Dennis.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I'm always looking for a better way to get tone through the board without having to mess with the soundman too much

Most of the time it comes through a little thinner than my real tone. I've been experimenting with mics and EDI (direct). Still not zero'ed in yet. I've also intentionally set my treble back and added a little more bottom.
Dennis

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I always go direct. For doing this, you need a good speakersimulater, that you must have adjusted in a good way. Also you need some good Tube-preamps (Manley, Focusrite) before you go into the console. To me this is the safest way, especially when I work in studio's that are not experienced with the pedalsteel and the way it should sound. WYHIWYG
Good luck!
JJ www.steeljj.com

Rex Thomas · From: Thompson's Station, TN

Johan hit it on the head concerning direct. You do need some kind of speaker simulation (& yes, do your homework & compare it with your amp to hear if the simulator is as authentic as you can set it), tube pre-amp, tube direct, etc. Of course that means shopping around for the components that work for you. The "modeler" approach works for me but not for everybody as I've read on this forum (must be the moon position again), so you have to experiment & find the unit, or combination of units that gets YOUR sound direct. So when you come to class you have your direct sound ready to go & avoid some intern engineer printing a sound that is not YOU.
I've been fighting this battle since Hector was a pup, & seems to me that the better the components between the you & the console (notice I'm including the steel here too) the less you should have to compensate your tone with EQ. Just my 4 cents.
Bottom line with me, either live or studio, I prefer my 1000 miked with an SM-57, although the 1000's line out has worked well for live direct, then the Pod Pro in the studio if mikeing is not an option.

[This message was edited by Rex Thomas on 07 September 2002 at 12:47 PM.]

David Spires · From: Millersport, OH

I'm with b0b all the way... I've never had a direct sound that I liked as much as my mic'ed sound. Stop to think, we are constantly working with our tone - over a period of many years... all through a speaker cabinet (which has become part of our "sound"). To simply eliminate part of that chain, and expect equal results - at least it hasn't worked for me.

This is not to say that you couldn't work on a direct sound over a period of time that would be equal in nature. It's just that most of us don't take the time to do that.

:-) Just another opinion,

David Spires

Steve Stallings · From: Houston/Cypress, Texas

I've not used my rig live yet, but I'm going to try running out of the MB Studio Pre directly into the board. I believe the studio outs are configured with some type of cabinet simulation. If it doesn't work well, I may try using my ADA microcab cabinet simulator.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I play with some guys who play too loud. The stage volume can be unbearable. Under these circumstances I would definitely recommend direct. Bleeds from other instruments get into your amp mic contributing to a big convoluted sound out front. Direct will isolate each instrument better. Our sound man prefers direct for this reason.

I use a Qudraverb GT with speaker emulation.

If you can play with a low stage volume micing may be a better way....but..... I can count the number of soft drummers I know on half a hand. Loud drummer -everybody turns up.

Jim Pitman
Jaspit Electronics

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

My experience is in the home studio with some pretty good gear:

The direct out from PV S2000 is very good, BUT...my Yamaha 2816 (16 track) board alters the tone.
Direct out from a Fender tube amp, (Blues DeLuxe) is very good but...the YAmaha board alters the tone.
I can take the direct out from either amp and go to a PV powered speaker and it sounds great. Therefore...my board does something to the sound.

Direct out is neat because you can record on two channels and don't have to worry when the dog barks!

Mic's may be the easiest.

BTW... ISG St. Louis performances were all mic'd from PV 1000's and a few Fenders here and there. The live sound was great.

Hope this adds to the thread.

Ron

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Fender Stringmaster T-8
Fender Custom D-8
Fender Strat
8 string Benoit
Peavey Amps

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I also noticed all amps mic'd at the convention. This raised my curiousity as to reason or preference of necessary equipment.
Here's another quiestion for those that run two amps:
I've had the experience of mic'ing two amps and found out afterwards that only one mic was turned up or the balance wasn't set right by the sound crew. So...is it possible to run both mic's into a passive junction box on stage and then one XLR to the board? At least getting the mix of tone, but not the stereo effect.
Thanks for the input guys.
Dennis

Whip Lashaway · From: Monterey, Tenn, USA

I agree with b0b and David wholeheartedly. I've done it both ways and it always seems to come through better with the mics. It seems like sound techs always ask if they can set me up direct. That may make it easier for them to control it but then it's not me the audience is hearing. My sound is what comes out of the speakers. That's what I hear and that's me. The speakers are an intrigal part of my sound and it just doesn't make sense to bypass them. I also use SM-57. I've had sound techs try other mics but they always come back to the SM-57's. I'd be a hard sell on anything else. I'll add the same disclaimer as b0b, I'm not a pro either. (yet) I just retired from the Indiana Air National Guard. Never know!!

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I do have a few tracks that I recorded direct with good results, but I think that's because I was also the recording engineer and producer. When you need to trust a mix engineer it's best to give them the right sound to start with. Mics are the only real way to do that, IMHO.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

It's just a matter of taste and what you are used to.
Most sessions I play, I'm in the controlroom, and adjust my sound on my rig, while the channels on the console aren't tweaked. So what comes on tape, is what I give them. What they do with it, that's their job, whether they like it to sound like a growling pig, airplane with motortrouble or a clean steel. If they like to mike the steel, it's also OK with me.

Steve Stallings · From: Houston/Cypress, Texas

Ok.... what exactly would be the difference between miking my signal vs sending a direct feed to the board for live situations. The signal path would be rack rig, Soundcraft FOH Board, QSC amps, JBL traps and subs. Would not the signal still be going through a speaker? Since the reproduction spectrum of the JBL traps and subs far exceed my two 15 inch BW, it would seem, at least at first glance, to be a viable option. I'm gonna try both ways and listen to the result. Course I'll need another steel player to do that

I'm still gonna use my speakers on stage because I absolutely love my new VHT power amp.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I would think that a live situation is where you would want to use mics the most. You are adjusting your sound according to what you hear from the speakers. If that's not what the sound man is getting, you are really shooting in the dark.

Johan, you record in the control room? Well, in that case going direct makes good sense, because you are listening to the direct sound as you play.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I usually record in the control room with pedal or lap steel, which is why I invested in a heavy duty 50' speaker cord. I will sometimes go direct, but not if it's a session I care about.

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