Boss Tone

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 15 Aug 2002 3:52 pm

Does anyone have any idea who did the injection moulding for the Boss Tone, or where these master moulds might be? I traced Sho-Sound of Nashville, which was Sho-Bud, to Baldwin Company which wound up at some little remote town in Arkansas. From there the trail went dead.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 15 Aug 2002 4:15 pm

I'd start by looking for Jordan Electronics people. They made the unit originally (with 1 PNP and 1 NPN transistor), and purists think that's the best one. Didn't Sho~Bud just add their own (Sho~Sound) label to the units they sold? I wasn't aware that Sho~Bud actually built any of these.

I took mine apart and checked, and there's only one tiny mark inside the case (near the threaded brass insert) that might be a Mfrs. mark. It looks like...a side view of a police-whistle!<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 15 August 2002 at 05:27 PM.]</p></FONT>

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 15 Aug 2002 6:40 pm

Keith,

I agree with Donny in that if the Sho-Bud Company manufactured anything it was labels not electronics. If you would like a list of Plastic and Rubber Molding Services (652 suppliers) - Various plastic and rubber molding and forming services such as injection molding, blow molding, rotational molding and thermoforming.

I can provide you a URL. From there you can do a little research.

Bob

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Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 15 Aug 2002 7:36 pm

You guys are probably right, Sho-Bud was just one sales source for the Jordan Company.
These units really worked good, but what amazes me more than the electronics is how compact the case were made with the two controls. If I were guessing, I would guess the injection molds exist somewhere. Those types of molds are expensive and people don't just throw them away. There are thousands upon thousands of injection molders. Contacting injection moulders would be like finding a needle in a million hay stacks.

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 16 Aug 2002 12:07 pm

Why don't you try Duane Marrs in Madison, TN. He would know, if anyone does. Also, he might put you in touch with David Jackson.

It WAS the Jordan Bosstone, before Shot bought it.

SOMEWHERE I had a schematic for them. Don't remember a MFGR, but who knows. I'll see if I can find it.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 16 Aug 2002 12:25 pm

Slightly off topic, but I'd like to find two of the roll wheel knobs for mine. Both of them have pieces broken off.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 16 Aug 2002 7:03 pm

Jordan Electronics was actually in in So. Pasadena, CA. They went out of business a long time ago. I think I remember Mouser Electronics carrying pots with knobs that were similar. Otherwise you'll just have to find something you can use to fashion a replacement.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 17 Aug 2002 12:19 am

I have I one of each......the original "Jordan Electronics" built one with a So. Pasadena address stamped on it and the "Sho-Sound" believed to be the same unit w/ the Sho~Bud label stuck on it. I haven't detected any difference in sound between the two other than they work/sound better w/ a used battery vs. new

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 17 Aug 2002 10:48 am

For Jim Smith abpve; long, long ago the knobs came off mine, and for at least 20 years I used it with two dimes for knobs . . . drilled a small hole in the center of each dime, and glued them to the pot. Just the right size.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 17 Aug 2002 11:02 am

Cool idea Chuck!

Can I borrow 20 cents?

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 19 Aug 2002 11:56 am

And for those who can't afford the .20 sewing buttons also work........

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 19 Aug 2002 1:28 pm

I have one of each also. The older (Jordan) unit doesn't work, but seems to be in tact. Anyone know how to work on these?

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 19 Aug 2002 2:32 pm

Chris,

I would be interested if you want to sell it.

Bob

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Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 20 Aug 2002 4:46 am

Hey Bob
Got your email. It's not worth much to me broken, so it's really not worth the hassle to me to sell it for not much money. I really hope to find someone who can fix it. Then I can sell one of 'em. Unless an offer from someone who can fix it is worth it.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 20 Aug 2002 7:02 am

I can fix it for you. Most parts should be replacable. Shouldn't cost too much. Email me.

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 20 Aug 2002 7:54 am

Keith:

I found this info on a Jordan Boss Tone Schematic:

Jordan Electronics
A division of the Victoreen Instrument Co.
Alhambra, California

Chris: Ok. I tried.

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John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 20 Aug 2002 8:41 am

This info is of no real value now, however; I don't know if SHO-BUD manufactured any Boss-Tone units or not, but; the did know how to work on them, because years ago when their shop was down town I had a Jordan, but; I didn't think it was creating enough fuzz-effect, so; Shot took it upstairs to a repair man who opened it and replaced some part which made the sound stronger. I later sold it, and then still later I bought another with the SHO-SOUND label, and I still use it today on occassion! John

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 20 Aug 2002 7:28 pm

Well, the trail leads back to Jordon Electronics, which is a divisioin of Victoreen Instrument Co. of Alhambra, Calif.
They have a web site and appear to still be in business making medical equipment. I found two schematics people had sent me. One schematic was from Jack Stoner. There is a slight difference in a couple of part values between the diagrams. There is a NPN transistor and a PNP transistor and the numbers are different on each diagram. I have a boss tone and the numbers on the transistors are different yet from the two diagrams people sent me. I don't suppose it would make much difference if you used high quality NPN and PNP transistors. One thing does amaze me, and that is the fact that these little units held up electronically really good. What amazes me is how things like this held up so good without "boot straping" the inputs and outputs with diodes. Boot straping with diodes is to protect the transistor junctions. Just using capacitors and limiting resistors don't always work. Capacitors and resistors is not enough protection for the inputs and outputs in the real world. People like Peavey boot strap the inputs and outputs so the transistor junctions can't rise above the power supply level. The real world is someone walking across a carpet and generating a thousand volts in his finger, or 120 volts roaring down a guitar cord from an ungrounded piece of equipment. All I can say is some manufacturers live a charmed, lucky life. I wouldn't dream of building something like this without protecting the inputs and outputs. Has anyone used replacement NPN and PNP transistors with good results? What are the numbers of the transistors?

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 20 Aug 2002 8:56 pm

Keith,

I can send you a copy of the original schematic drawing from Jorden Electronics. It shows the original parts plus a few substitutes. For example the transistors can be:

Q1 QT0101, 2N2222

Q2 QT0102, 2N2904, NTE129

Bob

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Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 20 Aug 2002 9:14 pm

NTE replacements are easy to get.

2N2222 can be replace with NTE123A

Specs: http://www.nteinc.com/specs/100to199/NTE123A.html

2N2904 can be Replaced with NTE129

Specs: http://www.nteinc.com/specs/100to199/NTE129.html

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Mark Amundson · Post by **Mark Amundson** » 21 Aug 2002 9:14 am

The 2N2222 and the 2N290whatever are pretty much generic 100 beta NPN and PNP silicon transistors found everywhere.

Regarding bootstrap diodes, very few pedals and other electronics use them. Why? Because most designers did not know enough to invision a possible failure mode the way Keith and Hartley do.

Most over-range voltage failures come from static (ESD) in which kilo-volts of potential are stored with a few picofarads in your body. So most pedals will absorb this kind of static abuse through their filtering and coupling capacitors; especially if there some moderate amount of resistance between the person and the capacitors. Through dumb luck most pedal designs survive the abuse.

With the exception of Keith, most of the new crop of pedal designers copy and or modify the old pedal designs without any knowledge than it "sounds cool". Little alone build in any fault tolerance.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 21 Aug 2002 8:14 pm

Good to see you post Mark. Mark makes his living as an electronics engineer, so we all should be honored that he is posting in the electronics section. Mark's hobby is music.
Bob, I think you are the one that sent me the diagram that is supposed to be from the factory schematic. The only real difference in this diagram and the one Jack Stoner sent me is one capacitor is .02uf and the other capacitor is .luf. Also,one diagram shows the diodes being 1N914 and 1N4148, where Jack's diagram has both these diodes as being 1N4001. The Boss Tone I have has the 1N4001 diodes. I think the only difference here is the amount of current that can be handled. I think the 1N4001 will handle up to one amp. My real question is what is the numbers of the "original" NPN and PNP transistors as the numbers on both diagrams I have differ? In addition to this, the numbers I read on the transistors in my original old Boss Tone are different than any of these numbers. The factory schematic says the parts listed were altered to these transistors 2N2222 and 2N3906. Jack's diagram has one transistor listed as a 3354 and the other one as a 3353. I really can't read what is in front of the 3354 and 3353, but it looks like a SPS. Anyway I took my old Boss Tone under the magnifying glass and here is the numbers from the transistors: One was FS-1133 924 and the other one was a metal can type with the number A530. Do any of these number cross with the 2N2222 and the 2N3906? Here is something else interesting. There are 4 capacitors in the circuit. In Jack's diagram 2 capacitors are .02uf, one is 50pf and the other is .1uf.
In the diagram that is supposed to be from the factory,there are 3 .02uf capacitors and one 50pf capacitor. In my old Boss Tone, which is factory original, with nothing altered, 3 capacitors are .01uf a one capacitor is 47pf. I can understand the 47pf, but there is quite a bit of difference in the other capacitors. Wonder why the big difference in schematic part values? No big deal, but I'm one of these guys who likes to get to the bottom of things and find out why.

Bob Lawrence · Post by **Bob Lawrence** » 21 Aug 2002 8:22 pm

Keith,

I have not sent anything yet. This may help:
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/robert.lawrence/BossTone.jpg

Note that some values listed with a ?. I assumed that they were subs dependent on what transistors were used.

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