Showman vs. Twin Reverb

Jeff Watson · From: Anza, CA. USA

I'm sure I'm not the first guy to ponder the best way to duplicate the sound I get from my Twin Reverb ('64) in a more user friendly package (amp head & cabinet). In trying to figure out what would make the best amp head the obvious choices (aside from destroying a perfectly good Twin) are a blackface Showman, where I have to give up my Fender reverb, or a silverface Dual Showman Reverb. I know the Showman and the Twin are the same circuit but I've heard the Showman lacks some of the character of a Twin. I was hoping somebody who has been down this same path or who could offer a comparison might care to comment. Thanks

[This message was edited by Jeff Watson on 20 June 2002 at 03:55 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jeff Watson on 20 June 2002 at 05:53 PM.]

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Hello Jeff;
Just wanted to let you know that Fender made a couple of real nice amps in just the head cabinet in the late '60's(68-72)
One is the Fender Showman Reverb( wants to see an 8 Ohm load) & the other is the Dual Showman Reverb( wants to see a 4 Ohm load)same as your Twin..They are heavy but still lighter than the whole Twin..I have a 1968 Fender Showman Reverb head & a seperate cab with a JBL D-130 8 Ohm speaker in it..It don't get no better IMHO!!!

Ron
P.S. I can send you a digital pix of it if you want to see it..Ron

[This message was edited by Ron Whitworth on 20 June 2002 at 05:10 PM.]

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I had a Dual Showman Reverb with the JBL D130 and the Twin Reverb with 2 jbls 120.

I Thought they both sounded great! But I would have to give the edge to the Dual Showman, a little more bass depth with that 15" cabinet and separate head made it easier to carry too. I should have kept them both....al

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Jeff, I see you are in PV. If you get yourself a Showman, next time you head out to the Desert you should get an "I am a Dickhead" hat.
No offense intended. Dick Dale sells them.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

Any comments from you guys who have owned both Twins and Showman amps on the difference between the open-back (Twin) sound and the Showman's closed back sound. I assume the Showman amps were available with 2X12" and 1X15" configurations.
--JR

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

Another amp head you might want to try is a Traynor Mark 3. Preamp is the same as a Twin. Power amp is different, but I actually like it better. It could be purchased in a "Twin" config or as a separate head. Usually they can be had for less than $300 for either one. I've had my Traynor "Twin" since I bought it new back in '73. A couple years ago I bought a head for $150 as a backup amp. Mike Perlowin played through it and loved the sound of the amp. Definitely worth checking out.

Chris Lucker · From: Los Angeles, California USA

Michael brings up a good point. I played Tele for a couple of shows through one of those same Mark 3's and was very impressed. I have always been a Twin Reverb guy but i liked the Mark 3.
Chris

Len Amaral · From: Rehoboth,MA 02769

Hi John:

I believe the "Showman" had a one 15 " cab and the "Duel Showman" had two 15" speakers in one cab.

I'd like to anyone fit one of these babies in the back seat of a volkswagon...*L*

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

I used to play through a Fender Bassman head years ago. It sure gave a good sound to my Sho-Bud. You might want to consider something like this.

Uff-Da!

Bob Metzger · From: Waltham (Boston), MA, USA

Jeff Watson,
You live in the land of Fender so there will be alot of choices for you in your locale for a Fender amp!

First off, a Showman amp is not the same as a Twin Reverb. It lacks the all-important 'reverb recovery stage' which is why a Deluxe can't compete with a Deluxe Reverb or a BF Pro with a Pro Reverb, ect, ect. This is true even if the reverb is off in these models. Now, a Showman Reverb has this reverb recovery stage and is very much like the Twin Reverb and can be 'blackfaced' by a competent tech, if you would so choose. Guitarists generally prefer this mod but with steelers, I think it's more a split decision. Also with the Showman Reverb, you have the portability of a seperate head and speaker enclosure and, if you elect not to use the stock speaker(s) then the world is your oyster: closed back, open back, single speaker, multiple speakers, ect, ect. I think I'd use a 15" and either a 10" or a 12" , on an L-pad, to dial in the highs and right balance for your particular guitar and sound.
Output transformers for the proper matching ohmage/impedance are readily available, no matter which Showman Reverb variant you start with or what speaker/speaker array you end up with.

John Russell asks about difference between the Twin Reverb and Showman. Besides the above circuitry differences, I think it comes down to some preferences in speaker types that we've all developed over the years. I know what I like for steel - 15" speaker(s) and open backed cabs. I almost always play in stereo with two amps and dissimiliar speakers (a 15" and a smaller one) - that sounds best to my ears. Open backed cabs sound more airy to me. Some say closed back cabs sound more focused and punchy. Some guys prefer 12" speakers and others prefer closed back cabs. I think you have to try all this stuff to see what works for you and develop you own preferences over some time. Remember, it's not written anywhere that you have to use Fender's cabinets with their heads; just match your impedance/ohmage between amp and speaker(s) and everything will be wonderful. Changing speakers is one of the biggest 'voicing changes' one can make with any amp. I was really thinking of dumping my NV 400 (with the groovy mod) until I put in the JBL D-130. What a change!

I cannot conclude without mentioning the Fender Vibrosonic Reverb. This is the only true steel amp that Fender ever made. Think Twin Reverb with a 15" speaker, usually a JBL. This is the amp for Fenderophiles who must have a 15" speaker (yes, I've got one).

Also, once you get your Showman Reverb, there are a number of things you can do to it to 'point it' toward making it better for steel guitar amplification (remember, this was a 'general' item for guitar, bass, keyboards, ect., ect.). Disconnecting the tremolo, which loads down the circuit and steals volume from the amp, is a good idea. Heftier filtering will give better low-end response and tighter bass. And 7581A's (a 6L6 variant), KT66's or 6550's will deliver the ultimate headroom required for steel guitar. These tube ideas should be realized by an experienced tech who knows how to set up an amp for really clean operation, as most would want for steel guitar.

Good luck,

Bob M.

[This message was edited by Bob Metzger on 22 June 2002 at 01:53 PM.]

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

Thanks, Bob Metzger, for those interesting Fender facts. I love amps, I think they're more interesting than steel guitars and if I had money, I'd have a room full of amps!

I had a Fender Vibrosonic amp several years and I won't tell you what I did with it but let's just say I "modified" it and wish I hadn't.

I can't explain why but I find Fender amps to have the perfect tone for steel guitar. I tried several SS type amps and couldn't maintain a relationship with any of 'em. I thought of going the Showman route with my EV15 speaker (I also have a PV black widow) but didn't know how do do it right. So you need the reverb circuit, eh? Trouble is, those Showman Reverbs are pretty large heavy beasts by themselves. I started out playing steel thru a Fender Super Reverb modified with 2 x 12's and the correct output transformer. That would make it about the same as a Pro Reverb. It sounded great and I'm guessing a Pro Reverb would make a pretty nice steel amp. On a large stage with lots of pickers, you'll need a little more "swat" than a 50 watt amp, that's why a Twin with JBLs was always the solution.

Bob, any suggestions as to how to haul around a Twin so as to protect the tubes? I maintain that rolling them around on casters hastens the demise of tubes almost as bad as overdriving them.

--JR

Jeff Watson · From: Anza, CA. USA

My thanks to everyone as well, especially Bob. The knowledge and experience that one can tap into here is truly amazing.

Bob Metzger · From: Waltham (Boston), MA, USA

You think that Fender amps have the perfect tone for steel because that's what your ear has become accustomed to over time. Luckily, you're not alone; for many, all amplified sounds are synonymous with the Fender sound, as there are so many units in the field, we are all saddled with Leo's legacy, for better or worse. I'm sure Hartley Peavey bristles every time he hears this.

You have to make a decision on what your priorities are. If weight is the major consideration, then you'll need to subdivide your rig or play a solid state amp. I think a hand truck/dolly with big inflatable rubber tires is the hot ticket (that's what I use). If you're worried about tubes going south due to vibration, don't invest a small fortune in those NOS RCA blackplates (great 6L6's). You just have to make some decisions based on what's the most important thing, then what's the next most important thing, ect.

By the way, I don't think 50 watt tube amps (2x 6L6's) make it for general steel guitar work, unless your playing a house gig at a very small and quiet club. As soon as you hit the big outdoor summertime stage when the band's on 11, you'll wish that you held out for the 4x 6L6 amp. Having said that, smaller amps have alot sweetness and charm (especially Deluxe Reverbs) at very low volumes.

Which bring this conversation back full circle, which is to say we all do need alot of amps for all these different applications!

Bob M.

P.S. If these ideas aren't enough, I've got friend named Spike, trained in art of manual labor - Twin Reverbs are his speciality!

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

I do play an outdoor gig downtown occasionally with a very laid back band and my Hot Rod Deluxe handles it quite nicely. I use a Boss GE7 EQ pedal which boosts the bass just right for my S12U guitar. Last night, we had a lead guitar player sit in (we usually have just 4 pieces) and sure enough, the amp started to fuzz out just a tad at certain moments during a hot solo. But overall the sound was very satisfactory to these old ears, the reverb is outstanding.

For the big stages, I have a rack rig I have described in detail elsewhere on this forum. It's a tube/SS hybrid. E-mail me if you need specifics. I dunno if is has the Twin/Showman sound exactly but it's plenty sweet.
--JR

Dan Tyack · From: Olympia, WA USA

I personally prefer the sound of a showman (sans reverb) to either a dual showman reverb or a twin. IMHO the reverb circuit takes away tone if you compare the basic tone without reverb. Your mileage may vary. I also prefer a good digital reverb to the spring variety, and often I play without reverb, unlike a lot of steel players.

John Russell · From: Austin, Texas

Mmm, interesting. I use a digital reverb (plus delay) with my rack setup and the sound is great. I've heard several posters say they use only delay and not reverb. I've done that on occsaion, when I had to borrow an amp with no reverb, and it didn't sound bad at all.

There used to be lots of Fender Showman amps floating around this town, they aren't that much in demand by guitarists. They either prefer the Deluxe sound, the Marshall sound or the "boutique amp" sound. I've been tempted to try out either the Showman or Dual Showman, especially without reverb since I use a digital. Problem is I don't know how to hook it up between the pre and power amps on a Fender. A trusted sound tech told me that's the optimum place to run the digital reverb I use.
--JR

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

Hi Dan, I'll have to agree with your thinking on the Reverb. I don't care for it anymore and hardly use it. I like the sweet pure sound of the steel with no effects.

But there are lots of jobs which requires all kinds of effects, and synth , etc. So the players have to go along with it....al

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 26 June 2002 at 01:34 PM.]

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