Recorders?

Chuck Jacolucci · Post by **Chuck Jacolucci** » 18 Mar 2001 5:38 pm

I would welcome some advice on the selection of a recorder. This is for home use only so I can review my practice sessions in hopes to improve my talent or lack thereof. I dont want a casette recorder - I can sound bad enough without help from a cheap recorder. I stopped in a music shop, and when I asked for information on tape recorders, they looked at me like I was living in the dark ages. Their recorders consisted of digital recorders with rythim and other bells and whistles that dont really interest me, including the $700+ price tag. I think the ideal setup would be a reel to reel tape deck, but it seems like the only place to find one of those is on ebay. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 18 Mar 2001 5:50 pm

I recommend the Reed Kotler digital transcriber. He makes 2 models + a software program that does the same things. Record up to ~90 - 120 seconds of a clip, and then slow it down, keeping the same pitch, or raising/lowering to suit your tuning. It's a great system. I live by the thing.

mtulbert · Post by **mtulbert** » 18 Mar 2001 8:50 pm

Hi Chuck,

If you are computer oriented, there are several digital recording programs on the market that are somewhat reasonable. Band In A Box now includes a digital recording program with version 10 I believe.

There is some learning curve to using this type of system however.

Regards,

Mark T.

Moon in Alaska · Post by **Moon in Alaska** » 18 Mar 2001 8:56 pm

Chuck, don't sell the cassette recorders short --- you must have not heard a good one !!! For the last 3 years, I have used a Tascam 4 track # 424 which I ordered from Musician's Friend catalog -- about $400.00.
It has 2 speeds -- standard cassette speed and twice as fast. It has a pitch control for playing with other tapes that are out of tune with you. It's quality of sound is really good. I run it thru an old home stereo and it sounds just as good as my Cd player thru the same system. It also has a heck of a good mixer built in which I use to input my rhythm track and steel. Now that I read back, this sounds like I sell them, but I don't !!
Anyway, I sure like mine !!!

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Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 18 Mar 2001 11:43 pm

Chuck,
I use a portable MiniDisk recorder for this, and I'd recommend that solution any day. Mine's a Sharp MD-something, but they're pretty much the same, except the Sony is a bit more money.

Even over here in over-taxed Denmark they only cost around 180$, and the sound quality is at least as good as any casette-deck IMHO. I've also used a Tascam like the one Moon recommends, and even though they are very good indeed, they have the distinct disadvantage of any tape-recorder: You have to fast-forward/reverse between tunes, with only one or two cue-points on the counter. With the MiniDisc you create any number of index's and jump between them, exactly like you do on a CD-player.

They're also very small, smaller than a typical walkman, and great for on-the-move recording e.g. during a steel convention

which would be quite troublesome with the Tascam I guess

Other than this, I also use my PC for harddisk recording, like somebody mentioned, but that's a different ballgame.

Just my .02$

Ole

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 19 Mar 2001 12:34 am

If you need to go to full professional uncompressed recording, why not go all the way to DAT- it's as good or better than CD,and portable if you go for something like a Tascam DAP1

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Cheers!

Chuck Jacolucci · Post by **Chuck Jacolucci** » 19 Mar 2001 8:24 am

It looks like a good quality cassette
recorder or minidisk recorder would fill the bill. Does the built in microphone on these systems sound OK or is it best to use a good quality external one? Thanks for the info.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 19 Mar 2001 10:11 am

I've done several albums with my Tascan four track 424 MKII. The current model is 424 MKIII, but is basically the same. The 424's have DBX in them and are very good quality for recording. I've had comments about my recordings sounding like they came out of a commercial studio.

The next step is a digital machine, but the price increases rapidly on them.

If you want something that you can record yourself with then the 424 will work well.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 19 Mar 2001 3:38 pm

Sounds to me like for what you're doing, a minidisk is just right. It's theoretically not as good as a DAT machine because of lossy compression, but I can't hear any sonic discrepancies in mine, and I'm pretty picky about audio quality. DAT is dead as a consumer format anyway, for all practical purposes.

I have a Sharp MD702, and It's great. I think it's been replaced by a newer model now, but you should be able to get a Sharp or Sony for around $200. You'll need an external microphone. Since I use mine for location recording, I wanted good mics, so I spent about $270 for some binaural mics from Core sound (www.core-sound.com). These are marketed as "stealth mics" for those who are into bootleg recording, but I don't care about that. The combination of recorder and mics is a tiny package that sounds absolutely incredible. Everyone who has heard recordings I've made with it has been highly impressed, to say the least.

Alternatively, Sony makes a stereo mic for around $100 that's not bad.

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 19 Mar 2001 5:14 pm

CHUCK - Ken from Davie, Florida (down the road from you). Here's my solution, I use a Marantz cassette record with pitch control to adjust any cassette tapes that are out of tune/pitch. I then use a "CHOP SHOP" which is a consistent pitch, variable speed, phrase sampler device (Mars sells them for $129.00). This device can slow down Paul Franklin to a snail pace for thirty seconds. This device has helped me the most in learning licks & parts of songs etc.

KEN

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 19 Mar 2001 5:17 pm

CHUCK - Ken from Davie, Florida (down the road from you). Here's my solution, I use a Marantz cassette record with pitch control to adjust any cassette tapes that are out of tune/pitch. I then use a "CHOP SHOP" which is a consistent pitch, variable speed, phrase sampler device (Mars sells them for $129.00). This device can slow down Paul Franklin to a snail pace for thirty seconds. This device has helped me the most in learning licks & parts of songs etc.

KEN

Ole Dantoft · Post by **Ole Dantoft** » 20 Mar 2001 3:35 am

Chuck,
Like Jerry said, get a decent external mic. I don't even think that most MD's have internal mic's - mine doesn't.

BTW just to clarify : I'm NOT into stealth/bootleg recording at all, I just like to be able to do decent sounding recordings when and where I feel like it, AND am allowed to do so !!

Ole

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 20 Mar 2001 10:09 am

FYI there's a recorder package for sale here:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum3/HTML/006663.html

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 20 Mar 2001 10:19 am

Quite right, Ole. The "stealth" aspect of small high-quality mics would have never occured to me until I started shopping around and noticed that some of the marketing for small, high quality mics emphasizes easy concealment. My only interest is in how they sound.

I wanted this rig primarily to record ensembles that I play in myself, but I have taken it out and recorded small concerts and club dates also. If it's not specifically stated somewhere that recording is prohibited, I just show the performer(s) this little box, and ask if it's ok to record. So far, nobody's turned me down, and I've had a couple of artists ask me for a copy after they've heard it, which I'm happy to supply. While I have no intention of distributing copies of any recordings I've made, many of them are what I would consider commercial quality, especially with a little post production and mastering work.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 20 Mar 2001 11:20 am

I too am a big fan of the mini-disk recorders. I use the $99 sony stereo mic but have heard great reviews of the stealth mics.
I record almost all of our shows and I believe it has made a huge difference in what I play with respect to phrasing, choice of notes and/or chord-inversion, and when not to play at all.
We did a recent out of town run where we played pretty much the same set about nine out of ten nights. I would review the tapes every day and make adjustments to my playing that I believed enhanced the overall sound of our group.
Four of five band members are now doing the same thing, recording rehearsals and gigs.
Our guitar player tells me he bought one also but so far he hasn't been using it at rehearsals or gigs... and he is quickly becoming our least improved player.[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 20 March 2001 at 11:20 AM.]

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 27 Dec 2001 4:24 pm

Guys, do the Minidisk recorders have a variable pitch control so you can slow down the recording without losing pitch. This would be for learning licks, progressions, etc. purposes. Thanks, Steve

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 27 Dec 2001 7:39 pm

Hi! I have a Yamaha "Producer Series" 4-trk recorder that is as new. E-mail me if you're interested and I can send you more info/specifics. Sounds like it would fit the bill! Kevin

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 28 Dec 2001 4:01 am

Hey Chuck, lots of good advice here as usual.
You can spend a whole lot of money and then a bunch more time learning how to use the new stuff . I currently use a laptop with Band in a Box 10, not to create killer tunes but to create simple practice files . I send the audio output to my Tascam 424 which also has a live feed from the steel. I paid $125 for the 424 from an EBAY auction and I paid $50 for the BIAB software. I play the tunes over and over again, listening only in the headphones from the 424. In this manner I don't kill my family. If I feel like recording I just hit the record button. The Tascam 424 has 3 tape speeds, 4 tracks , DBX and will make a very high quality recording if you have the input trims set correctly, pay attention to your levels and use a High Quality tape. Jack Stoners CD's have great tonality and he has done them on this type of machine. My experience with digital reccording is that you can come up with a whole new set of recording flaws that are not present in analog tape recording. Just cause it's Digital doesn't mean it's gonna sound good. I can tell you this, I still haven't recorded anything worth keeping and it ain't the tape player !
Best of luck
TP[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 December 2001 at 04:01 AM.][This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 December 2001 at 04:02 AM.]

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 28 Dec 2001 5:31 am

I have a quite nice 17x20 room in my home which is a home studio. I hae some very nice gear in a 24 track setup. I don't think you need that... My 12 year old is always wanting to record his guitar playing so for Christmas, I bought him a Fostex 4 track X12.
$99 bucks. Works great for non-critical recordings.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas