Fender Amp Question

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 11 Oct 2001 9:33 am

Hey, all you tube-amp folks:

I'm looking for any information that anyone would like to share about the original black-face, 1963 model Fender "VIBROVERB" amp. This model was only made in 1963 & '64. It has 3 6LS power tubes, and 5 or 6 12AT7 & 12AX7 tubes for tone/reverb/tremelo circuits. It also has an 8 ohm, 15" Jensen speaker.

Does anyone know how much one of these might be worth in today's market?

Thanks in advance, JC.

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 11 Oct 2001 9:45 am

According to the Official Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide 6th Edition (1998):

1963 Brown, 2x10".....$2,700 to $3,500
1964 Black, 1x15".....$1,200 to $1,500

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Emmons Push Pull S10 | Peavey Session 400 | '52 Fender Lap Steel | Goodrich L120 & Matchbox
[This message was edited by Michael Holland on 11 October 2001 at 10:46 AM.]

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 11 Oct 2001 10:25 am

however....because you are a friend Jody, I'll give ya $159.99....heck, those old things ain't gettin any younger

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Ricky0ne1 · Post by **Ricky0ne1** » 11 Oct 2001 10:41 am

Bet that thing would get $1800 in auction... maybe more.....

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 11 Oct 2001 11:57 am

Michael & Ricky, thanks guys. Steve, hmmm, might trade it to ya for the Zum, haha.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Oct 2001 2:19 pm

Depending on condition, it would indeed bring between $600, and $1600. It has two 6L6's (not three)...the other big tube is a rectifier, 5U4 or 5R4 I think. It has a circuit identical to the more popular "Super Reverb". But with only 30-35 watts, it wouldn't be much for live work without miking it. It would make a great "Blues", or practice/recording amp, though.

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 12 Oct 2001 2:52 am

The "15 inch" Vibroverb is an incredible amp. A clean, all original example is easily worth $2K, probably more. Check the completed auctions on EBay.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 12 Oct 2001 3:50 pm

There a good discussion on the Fender Forum on this amp. It apprears it was the choice for blues guitar player, Stevie Ray Vaughn. That has driven the price up lately to the point where us poor old country pickers just can't afford 'em anymore! It's not much for a steel amp, but I'll trade a nice 1973 Session 400 for it when your ready to upgrade! Trust me! OK, I'll even supply a nice amp cover with the deal!![This message was edited by Ken Fox on 12 October 2001 at 04:52 PM.]

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 12 Oct 2001 7:52 pm

This amp is an awesome guitar amp. It may be a little dirty for Pedal, due to the wattage and speaker. I would love to get one of these, but not at current market prices. THis is a lucky find.

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Steels and Guitars. Emmons, Nationals, Dan-O's, ES 340, Tube Amps only! "Blue Sparks From Hell" and "Kings in DIsguise".

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 13 Oct 2001 7:29 pm

An alternative similar amp would be the Fender Pro (not reverb) from the early 60s. I believe the only difference would be that the Pro has vibrato not vibrato and reverb. Call me weird but I prefer a good quality digital reverb to a fender reverb any day, so I would go with a Pro. There is no doubt that thanks to SRV, the vibroverb is one of the most sought after vintage amps out there.

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www.tyacktunes.com

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 15 Oct 2001 8:51 am

Jody,
I traded the Zum to Jeff Coffell for a brand new D10 Legande II. BUT...go ahead, you take his Zum and send me the amp

(he's a good guy...I'm sure he'll part with the zum) ROTFLMAO

BTW...killer amp for guitar you've got.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 15 Oct 2001 9:48 am

Dan - the brown Pro is a 40W combo with 1x15". It's sorta similar to the Vibroverb but the brown amps are kind of peculiar. The tone circuit uses a funny tapped pot and has a very interesting sound, plus the brown amps (for the most part) have a Presence control, which IMHO is very nice to have. Also the vibrato on the brown amps, (Concert, Super, Pro, Twin, Bandmaster, etc.) is odd, too. It uses 3 tubes and actually does some pitch modulation, sounds worlds different than blackface "chop, chop, chop."

The brown Pros are killer amps, but they're getting pricey, too.

Matt Farrow
Pharaoh Amplifiers

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Matt Farrow
Marlen 9-string 6+2
Kustom K150

http://www.skybolt6.com/pharaohamps

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 15 Oct 2001 11:51 am

I don't have my books here with me but I seem to recall that the tremolo circuit is not the same as that of a Super Reverb. (I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong.)

The Super Reverb uses a photo cell and a light dependent resistor to ground out the signal. The Vibroverb actually modulates the bias to the power tubes to achieve the effect, like the smaller Fender amps (Princeton Reverb, etc.). I've never AB'ed them to compare, but I read somewhere that the "bias" method sounds better. I believe that it may have been the only "big" (a.k.a. 2x6L6's) Fender amp to use this design.

And I do agree; SRV using them did nothing to keep the prices in our atmosphere.

Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 15 Oct 2001 1:03 pm

You're right, ajm. The Super Reverb and BLACKFACE Vibroverb (1x15") use the neon build / photocell tremolo (optocoupler.) (So do most of the blackface and silverface amps, exceptions include the Princeton Reverb and the Vibro-Champ.) The BROWN Vibroverb (2x10") uses outpuit tube bias modulation. The Brown Pro and most other brown amps use the "harmonic" or 3-tube vibrato.

Matt Farrow
Pharaoh Amplifiers

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Matt Farrow
Marlen 9-string 6+2
Kustom K150

http://www.skybolt6.com/pharaohamps

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 18 Oct 2001 3:13 am

Just to clear something up. Dan is right about the Pro, he's refering to a blackfaced model, kinda rare but pretty much a Vibroverb without reverb. The brown Pro that Pharoh refered to was much different(vibrato,presence etc.).

Hamilton Barnard · Post by **Hamilton Barnard** » 18 Oct 2001 7:53 am

I have two Fender trem questions :

Does the trem circuit in 'brownface' amps pulsate a negative voltage to the power tube grids to get the effect?

I have a '65 Princeton Reverb that I would like to increase the trem 'intensity', is there a way to do this?

Thanks.

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My Marshalls.

Matt Farrow · Post by **Matt Farrow** » 18 Oct 2001 2:39 pm

Hamilton, to answer your questions - the brown Bandmaster, Pro, Concert, Super, and Twin have the "harmonic" vibrato, that is to say the 3-tube vibrato circuit. The Vibroverb has the simpler output tube bias modulation vibrato, which changes the negative bias on the output tubes.

The Princeton Reverb also uses the output tube bias modulation, and to increase the depth of the vibrato, I suggest changing the series limiting resistor from the oscillator to the intensity pot. If you look at the back of the intensity pot, the right hand lug has a wire going to the board. Follow it to a .1 (might be a .01) cap, and the other end of that cap is soldered to a 1M resistor. Change that 1M resistor (brown, black, green) to probably 820K or 680K.

Disclaimer - Tube amps contain LETHAL voltages even when turned off, so don't work on your tube amps unless you know what you're doing. Any damage you do to yourself or your property is your fault.

Matt Farrow
Pharaoh Amplifiers

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Matt Farrow
Marlen 9-string 6+2
Kustom K150

http://www.skybolt6.com/pharaohamps

Hamilton Barnard · Post by **Hamilton Barnard** » 18 Oct 2001 3:31 pm

Thanks Matt, a piece of cake.

dISCLAIMER :
I've been shocked enough that it is has but no in way ever bothered me...any effects either...none so ever.

Cartwright Thompson · Post by **Cartwright Thompson** » 20 Oct 2001 3:31 am

Jody,
I just saw a '63 Vibroverb on Lark Street Music's latest list. The condition is described as VG+, the price ......$3500(!)

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 20 Oct 2001 7:34 am

I just checked the Fender website, and (as I had suspected) the "Vibroverb" and the "Super Reverb" used IDENTICAL (AA763) circuits! Anyone liking the sound of the Vibroverb need only buy a (much cheaper) Super Reverb, and add a 15" speaker.

Needless to say, I do continue to be amazed at the prices collectors pay for some very "ordinary" gear.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Oct 2001 7:44 am

I was at a jam last night, at a friends house, and he is a (primarily) Fender collector. He has an original Fender Bassman with the four 10" speakers - covering on the amp is original but in bad bad shape - and he's been offered $3K sight unseen for it.

Ken Fox · Post by **Ken Fox** » 20 Oct 2001 8:32 am

Good point, Donny. You'd just need to change the output transformer to get an 8 ohm tap. Another thing that is popular in to make a "Vibroclone" with a Bandmaster Reverb amp stuck in a 1 - 15" cabinet with a D130 JBL. Bandmasters with Reverb are pretty reasonable these days. Anybody got one they want to get rid of, let me know, I'd like to try and build one myself! Jack Price has a nice article on this at his site: http://members.home.net/priceamp/

[This message was edited by Ken Fox on 20 October 2001 at 09:34 AM.]