Volume Pedal Issues / Question

Chuck Smith · Post by **Chuck Smith** » 26 Aug 2000 8:18 am

Joe,

I use the 3 cord hook-up on both my Nash 400 and Session 500. I use the Hilton pedal. I have been using it on gigs for several months now and as I have posted before it has improved my sound and overall playing more than ANY other pedal or effects unit I have ever used..I don't know a thing about electronics or theory, just what I hear in my playing.
I have not heard of anyone who USES a Hilton pedal finding any fault with them,or not feeling they are an improvement..

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Chuck.. ."Every day's a Holiday and every night's a Party";)

slick · Post by **slick** » 27 Aug 2000 8:51 am

Anyone,
What is a three cord hook up?I have a nashville 400 and an ole sho-bud pedal.
Can i do it with those?
Thanks for any help.

Wayne

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Aug 2000 10:24 am

Slick, run your steel directly to the amp input. Put your volume pedal in the effects loop. That's the "3 cord" setup.

slick · Post by **slick** » 27 Aug 2000 1:06 pm

Jack,
Thanks for your reply,but im still lost when
you say plug the pedal into the effects loop.
If you would explain that ill give it a try.
Keep in mind all i have is a steel,a pedal
and an amp.Thanks again.

Wayne

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Aug 2000 1:26 pm

Run your guitar straight into the input on the amp. Run the Pre EQ OUT to the INPUT of the volume pedal. Run the output of the volume pedal to the Pre EQ IN on the amp. You then control the volume via the effects loop (or Pre EQ as it's labled on the Nashville 400).

slick · Post by **slick** » 27 Aug 2000 2:09 pm

Thanks Jack,
I have never used the PRE EQ PATCH,but ill
try it monday gotta get two more cords.I have
two but one is to short.
Joe is the difference worth investing in the
cords?Exactly what does this do for the amp?

Thanks Jack
Thanks Joe

Wayne

Jim Florence · Post by **Jim Florence** » 27 Aug 2000 3:45 pm

Makes all the difference in the world, and IMHO does away with the need for the expensive volume pedals. You'll never go back to the other way.
Jim

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Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 27 Aug 2000 3:54 pm

That's essentially what I do with my rack rig. My volume pedal is in the effects loop of my processor.

slick · Post by **slick** » 27 Aug 2000 5:10 pm

Thanks Joe,
Im gonna try it monday after i get some cords
The reason i dont have extra cords is that
I dont play anywhere except at home.I played the clubs for years,but i have been retired
for a long time.I still enjoy playing,and I
would like to sound as good as possible.Ill
let you know how it works out.
Thanks again

Wayne

slick · Post by **slick** » 2 Sep 2000 8:27 am

Three wire hook up-WOW!!!!
I cant beleive how much better the nashville
400 and the MSA sound.I have learned so much
on this forum.Its great to have a source of
information such as you guys.If i continue
to learn from you great people I might get out of this room,and play with a band.Its
been a long long time.
Thanks again for everything.
Wayne

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 2 Sep 2000 4:22 pm

Using the above described hook-up, would an effects device(s) such as the BOSS BCB-6 stomp boxes be better before or after the volume pedal?
STEEL> AMP INPUT> AMP EFFECTS LOOP OUT> VOLPEDAL INPUT> VOLPEDAL OUT> BOSS EFFECTS IN> BOSS EFFECTS OUT> AMP EFFECTS LOOP IN.
Thanks, Kevin

Lindley · Post by **Lindley** » 4 Sep 2000 4:17 am

Would a single coil Emmons use the low gain, or the high gain input?

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Steel crazy after all these years.
Emmons Lashley Legrande 111 S-10, Nashville 1000, Peavey Stereo chorus 212, Peavey Classic 50/410, Lexicon MPX 100

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 5 Sep 2000 1:14 am

When I run the vol pedal through the effects loop of my Webb GP-14, the sound is not clean or clear but almost "dirty" sounding. I hooked up the old way steel>volped>ampin and the sound was much improved! I then added the Boss effects thru the loop. Am I doing something wrong? Makes sense to run the volume pedal (and effects) thru the loop but doesn't work on my set-up.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Sep 2000 2:49 am

Kevin, what kind of volume pedal do you have? I've found the Goodrich 10K model volume pedals tend to overload and also change the tone when used in the 3 cord hookup. The standard 500K pot models work fine. I'm not familiar with the Webb amp, but if it is an effects loop generally it will work.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 5 Sep 2000 7:52 am

Jack, the effects loop on the back is labeled "pre-amp out" and "power-amp in" below the inputs, along with send & return above these jacks respectively. I am using an older Goodrich 120 but have tried a free standing also pedal bar type Sho~Bud with sameresults. Again, it is night & day difference getting volume/clean tone back with the two various hookups! Disappointed.

Jerry Gleason · Post by **Jerry Gleason** » 5 Sep 2000 9:14 am

It seems as if running the volume pedal through the effects loop will only be an advantage if the loop places it in a stage of the preamp where it's designed to work that way, like Peavey's, or in a processor with a configurable effects loop.

With my Boss GX-700, I always place the volume pedal in the effects loop, with the guitar plugged directly into the input. I configure the effects chain so that it's near the end, just before delay and reverb. In this way, even with a passive pedal, there is no tone change with volume pedal sweep as there would be with the pedal ahead of the input.

However, when I tried this trick with my Evans combo amp, it sounded just the same as with the pedal ahead of the input. There was no improvement in tone, and the tone still changed with the pedal sweep. The Evans places the effects loop between the preamp and the power amp.

This three cord arrangement works with the Peavey because it's designed to, but with other amps / preamps, you'll just have to try it and see.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Sep 2000 9:19 am

Kevin, the preamp out/power amp in is not an "effects loop". The signal at that point is (usually) at "line level" (1V) rather than a lower "instrument" level.

If the amp does not have a "standard" effects loop it probably won't work correctly using the preamp out/power amp in with a volume pedal. The Peavey's, as someone else mentioned, are designed so that you can use a volume pedal in the effects loop and it will work correctly.

Kevin Mincke · Post by **Kevin Mincke** » 5 Sep 2000 10:41 am

Thanks Guys!
Yes, there is also a seperate "line out" jack next to the other two labeled "pre-amp out "send" & power-amp in "return". I think this is how they are labeled due to specific manufacturers' Webb vs. Peavey or Evans etc. I think the loop IS between the preamp and power amp however. I'll try the pedal before & after the effects..... but still in the loop and check results. Kevin