Hilton vs. Goodrich

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 25 Aug 2000 12:20 pm

In detailing how the new Goodrich pedal operates, we believe they have copied the control part of our patent. Our legal team is in the process of notifying Goodrich. Those "dealers" who sell this new Goodrich pedal are in jerpordy of patent infringment, even though they are not the manufacturer. This patent protection in Federal DIstrict Court extends to the individual buyer, and even to a person who re-sells a used pedal.

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Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 25 Aug 2000 1:34 pm

Keith -

I'd say that you are certainly entitled to protect your intellectual property rights, and I hope it turns out that there IS no inconsitency or dispute between yours and Goodrich's technology - I really do. But I can also say that your language in the above post seems to be an implied(?) threat that doesn't exactly endear the Hilton product to me.

You said:

I personally think there should be more people besides Goodrich and myself into steel guitar electronics.

If you're trying to put your potential customer base on notice about possible legal ramifications, I would image that that would have a pretty detrimental effect on the steel guitar industry as a whole, to say nothing of competition within the various electronics suppliers.

Steve Feldman

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 25 Aug 2000 5:23 pm

I'm going to quit double posting, Bob doesn't like it. Please read my response in Bar Chatter!

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Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 26 Aug 2000 10:52 am

Rayman, that is what this whole issue is about. Rest assured that I mean exactly what I say, "I intend on defending my patent in Federal District Court." If anyone has ideas about producing or selling ideas contained in my patent, they will have to hire lawyers and appear in Federal District Court.

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[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 26 August 2000 at 12:00 PM.]

Alan James · Post by **Alan James** » 26 Aug 2000 11:53 am

The "Patent Number" being claimed is in actually a Patent Application Serial Number.
That number confers no rights to the applicant. It only serves to identify a patent application.

An application itself does not guarantee the sucessful prosecution of a patent resulting in the issuance of said patent. A patent may or may not be issued. Also, the examiner can disallow almost any number claims made in the original application for a variety of reasons.

Until the patent is actually issued, infringement cannot occur since no patent has been issued. This is true even if an exact copy of the invention were to be made and sold.

Once the patent has finally been issued the inventor must PROVE infringement and may also be forced to defend the legitimacy of the patent. (A commonly successful defense in these cases is that the patent's claims were wrongfully allowed.)

Also, if no one has ever seen and examined the alleged infringing product, it is impossible to prove infringement.

Alan James[This message was edited by Alan James on 26 August 2000 at 01:13 PM.]

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 26 Aug 2000 12:46 pm

Alan - Then what rights are granted under 'patent pending' status?

From my personal experience, it doesn't take much of a change or alteration in technology or design to permit the awarding of an entirely new patent. In my work, I've seen patents awarded all the time with only minor design changes from the original. IMO, patent infringement, in most cases, is the result of a near exact duplication of effort. [This message was edited by Steve Feldman on 26 August 2000 at 01:48 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 26 Aug 2000 1:14 pm

Well, this is very important because Keith is obviously trying to discourage anyone who would consider buying the new Goodrich pedal in St. Louis (or anywhere else). I think we all support his right to defend any patents he holds that have been ISSUED. So everyone has a right (and some people have a NEED) to know, does Keith already have a patent ISSUED for the technology in his new pedal, or is the patent APPLIED FOR, and NOT YET ISSUED? This is a very critical difference. Keith?

Alan James · Post by **Alan James** » 26 Aug 2000 1:35 pm

Here is a basic explanation of an inventor's rights at various stages of an invention's life:
http://www.nolo.com/encyclopedia/articles/pct/pct8.html

"The Life of an Invention"

Alan

db · Post by db » 26 Aug 2000 2:28 pm

See bOb's thread in the Electronics topics section titled "Fun Patents"!
The Hamamatsu Company was the supplier for all of the photoelectrical devices used by the Musitronic Corp. for its Mutron III, phasors and Volume/Wha & Expression pedals.
In the mid-seventies this company introduced a Volume/Wha Pedal and an Expression pedal to be used with their Bi-Phase stereo Phasor ( using Hamamatsu photosensitive resistors ).
I used to work at Musitronics and was responsible for the final calibration of these units. I still have a couple of them.

I recently saw that Mr. Hilton was very upset by the release of the Goodrich optical pedal and planned on launching a lawsuit.

I believe that the Musitronics product precedes both of these products.

bob drawbaugh · Post by **bob drawbaugh** » 26 Aug 2000 3:24 pm

Alan thanks for the information. I have just placed an order for 100 Goodrich pedals. I'm going to remove their name and put mine on it and then double the price. What'a think?

No cards or letters please. I was just kidding.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 26 Aug 2000 6:14 pm

I think enough has been said about this topic. I think the topic should be closed. I think everyone should cool off and do a lot of thinking about everything that has been said. I can assure you I do have a patent.

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Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 26 Aug 2000 9:53 pm

While not willing to get into the Patent infrengment(sp?) thing here, I really need to know how the purchaser of the Goodrich pedal might be sued in this matter?

1) he has no knowledge of any patent problems involveing the pedal.

2) he dosen't really care who built the thing as long as it works to his satisfaction.

3) If I was seen with a Goodrich pedal, How would anyone know if I bought it, stole it, or how I obtained it. Trying to sue someone just because they have a product that somewhat functions the same as another, isn't going to cut it. If that was so, then GM could sue me because I own a Ford. Why, do you ask? Because both have the ignition key system located on the steering post !!

Fellows, fight your wars here on the patent thing if you wish, but your gonna have to leave out the folks that might buy a Goodrich pedal for what ever reason. The courts will laught you right out of the courtroom. Only the Lawyers will get any monies out of such a suite.

And a personal note here:

Keith....
While I think you have a reason to be concerned here, The first time you attempt to sue a person who has purchased Goodrich pedal, That will be the day you can close your doors to your business because no one will ever again purchase a product from a company if they even THINK they might even remotely get involved in a lawsuite. What WILL hapen here,Sir is that people who even thought of a purchase from your firm will shy away from it because all they (believe me here) will remember is that your company attempted to take a consummer to court, Makes no difference what for but just the fact that it happened !

I know you have a fantastic product in your pedals and gear because I have had the opertunity to look inside of a few of them.
While (in my opinion, a bit over kill in certain parts of some of them) I admire your design and such, I would purchase one if I could afford it.

Bottom line here is:

Leave the purchaser out of the firckus !!

[This message was edited by Bill Crook on 26 August 2000 at 11:16 PM.]

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 26 Aug 2000 10:14 pm

Bill, you brought up a good point. My lawyers tell me that the court never goes after individual buyers, although they can according to patent law. The people in jepordy are the manufacturer and the sellers. I can assure you I would "never" bother a individual who bought one of these pedals. Neither would I bother a mom and pop music store that sold one. The people that need to talk to me about my patent are the manufacturer and the large retail operations. How could I take a fellow steel player to court, just because he bought a pedal. You got me wrong, I'm nice guy, I'm on your side. If you want a Goodrich pedal, I advise that you buy one, and nothing will happen to the individual buyer. I guarantee it!

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Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 26 Aug 2000 10:19 pm

Keith....

Thank you......