Primo Tone With Two Amps

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 11 Nov 1999 6:42 pm

I run my Mullen into a Hilton Digital Sustain, to a Goodrich volume pedal, then to a rack with a Lex digital reverb (stereo) then through an ART stereo 15 band EQ. The outs go to an Evans FET-500 Custom LV (large cabinet) and to a Peavey Nashville 400 (no mod). I bypass the EQ and dial in my favorite tone settings on the amps and get a really good sound out of each amp. Each amp has its own distinctive tone. They both sound great, but different. Then I punch in the EQ and start tweaking things to bring out the best that each amp has to offer. The EQ has separate volume controls, so I can turn one amp down while I tweak the other. Now I have two amps that really sound great, yet each amp still sounds different. When I'm done and bring up the volume on both amps, together, the tone is just so sweet. I just can't get this kind of tone out of one amp. I noticed this many years ago when I was using the Nashville 400 with an old Fender Vibrosonic. The two amps sounded incredible together. I know a lot of players use two amps to get a stereo effect. I like using two amps because of the tone. Has anyone else experienced this?

Lee, from South Texas

Dave Alfstad · Post by **Dave Alfstad** » 11 Nov 1999 6:54 pm

Lee,
I do almost the same thing. I too use a Hilton Sustain Unit into the volume pedal and from there into a Peavey Pro-FexII. From the left and right outs of the Pro-Fex I go to a Webb 6-14E and a Peavey Special 130, respectively. I have the EQ in the Pro-Fex in the chain but all the frequency gain levels are set to zero so it is not EQ'ing the signal. All my EQ'ing is done from the knobs on the amps. I don't generally use any effect in one amp that isn't in the other so I don't think you would consider the sound to be "stereo". The Webb has a 15" speaker and the Peavey has a 12" speaker. I have yet to find one single amp that can give me the sound that the two amps combined provide. If I could I would probably buy it...less to carry around.

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Dave Alfstad
www.geocities.com/nashville/bluegrass/4625

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 11 Nov 1999 7:08 pm

I'm hooked on two amps also!
I recently bought 2 Danelectro practice amps for my living room and they look cool and sound great. For stage I have been using a Nash 400 and a Session 500 but I justed picked up a twin reverb so I'll be trying that out this weekend. I currently go from steel to vol pedal to a Boss RV-3 which has stereo outs, to the 2 amps. I agree that you can't get that tone out of one amp.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 11 Nov 1999 7:18 pm

Pete - You're either single or have a very understanding wife.

Lee, from South Texas

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 11 Nov 1999 8:44 pm

My normal rig is a Mesa Boogie stacked on a Webb. The two amps have nothing in common (except great sounding reverbs). The combination is really rich on stage, but not tight enough for studio work. I stick with the Boogie in the studio because it has better definition.

You've all heard this before, right?

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Bobby Lee

www.b0b.com/products
Sierra S-12 E9th 5p+6k, Fender Stringmaster D-8, Sierra S-8 Lap

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 12 Nov 1999 2:47 am

I recently bought a used MosValve 500 power amp. I've started using my Transtube Fex with the MosValve and two 12" Peavey BW speakers. The sound is a lot fuller with the two speaker setup. About the only difference I've done, so far, is to change the delay setting slightly in one channel (longer) and that also adds to the fullness.

However, I also get a great sound just using a DD5 delay and a Nashville 400 (with the factory mod).

My Franklin has L710 pickups and I've found I don't need a matchbox (or similar unit) with the Lawrence 710 pickups.

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Franklin D-10
Keep it Country, Hoss

Eddie K · Post by **Eddie K** » 12 Nov 1999 4:57 am

I agree on the two amp thing. When possible, of if staging allows, I use two identical Boogie MKI reissues. I use the preamp on one amp out of the FX send to a Lex/dual parametric eq/mixer then into the fx returns on both amps. I use the mixer to run the Lex in parallel with the dry signal.
I stack the amps on their road cases side by side.
My PSG gig is in a 8 member band so a lot of the club gig's are either too cramped or that much power is not needed (everything is always miked). In those cases I use a single Boogie with the Lex run in parallel in the fx loop.
I love the summer months with those larger outdoor stages.

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Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 12 Nov 1999 5:05 am

Glad it's catching on. I have been using two amps since Fender came out with their first Bassman amp (four ten inch speakers. Still have one of those in the closet. Now I am using two Evans FET 500 with two extension cabinets. My amps were made by Darrell Stephens prior to the sell-out of the company. One stack has reverb. Then I take a pre-amp signal out, through a analog delay and then into the second amp stack input which by-passes the pre-amp of this second stack. This allows my first stack to control the tone. Second stack has a small amount of echo and thats all. No compressors, exterior devices at all-just my volumne pedal. By the way, I tried the new Evans amps at the St. Louis show. They would not carry my chord structure at all. And I do not play loud at all. My present amps gain controls are set between 1 and 2 for both pre and post controls. I never bottom out the volumne pedal either. Darrell made a suuper product. Had to use two "us" because that's how good they are. The Peavey rep at the St. Louis show tried tyo set up their new amp systems to obtain this sound. He could not find the settings at all. Keep up the good work. BS and that' no BS.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 12 Nov 1999 8:20 am

Hello Lee:
I have used two amps with an RV-3 and I love the sound. However, my aching back carrying two Nashville 400 amps! I have another nashville 400 I split into a head and separate speaker cab and is very portable. Also, Frenchy turned me on to using an RV-3 and mixing it with the reverb on the amp to warm up the overall reverb sound!Cool!
Lee! I will E-mail you separately to see if you still have that Emmons 12 string!
Len Amaral

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 12 Nov 1999 7:05 pm

Len - I will E-mail you separately to let you know I sold the Emmons 12 string!

Lee

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 12 Nov 1999 9:11 pm

I'm coming in on this just to talk about a big hall/full stereo concert. If you run 2 different amps/ 2 different delays, etc., the left half of the room hears the left, the right half hears the right. When you have a set up like that, as long as you work off the stage in a club or small hall you should be OK. But outside, or in a shed or (God forbid!) a TV show, you're shootin' yourself in the foot, 'cause that stereo separation will send everyone racing to the mono button. You may see guys runnin' 2 amps on TV, but those guys in the sound room are pullin' back and compressin' that whole mix to the nth degree.

All the big sound companies these days do run a stereo mix in the mains.....but it is kinda modified, 'cause they have to have the cross-fires and all that feedin' the house, and you can't have a true stereo sound everywhere.....that's why the smaller, true music theaters are the nicest places to play for sound. This huge, beautiful stereo sound you like....use for a monitor, but remember, those sound guys hate getting that kind of feed for a majority of the shows they mix. How many times have you seen a show where the steel has 2 amps, but only one has a mic in front of it? There ya' go!

I didn't mean for this to be that big of response, but the more I think about it...there really is alot to it. I could go on with specifics for hours(oh boy!).

Eddie K · Post by **Eddie K** » 13 Nov 1999 5:32 am

I'm one of those 2 amp 1 mic guys. Same through both amps just for more headroom, (IMO it looks cool too). Doesn't matter what I bring I get the same number of sends to the board each gig. We carry our own sound system that is always wired for stereo. Some gigs we can use it other times each stack fills a certian part of a club and it is mono all night with maybe an eq change on each main send. Those gigs where stuff gets panned across the stage a bit does a lot to clean up the sound.

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Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 13 Nov 1999 7:08 am

Back to my original point, Jeff. I don't run two amps for the stereo effect (or is that affect? I can never remember.). I just like the tone two amps give me. My two amps sit side by side and our PA is run mono. Most of the venues we play are so small that we don't even have to mike the instruments.

Lee, from South Texas

billy tam · Post by **billy tam** » 13 Nov 1999 11:12 am

More kudo's for the two amp situation. I have been using two evans amps for several years now and have a hard time if I have to play thru just one. I am now going to a stereo set-up with blue tube pre-amp into a boss se-50 fx into each side of a peavey dpc1400x, then to 2 112-e cabs. By panning on the fx's(?) I get real close to the comfort of two amps. I have the same # of peices to carry but I got rid of about 150 lb of weight.

billy tam · Post by **billy tam** » 13 Nov 1999 11:12 am

More kudo's for the two amp situation. I have been using two evans amps for several years now and have a hard time if I have to play thru just one. I am now going to a stereo set-up with blue tube pre-amp into a boss se-50 fx into each side of a peavey dpc1400x, then to 2 112-e cabs. By panning on the fx's(?) I get real close to the comfort of two amps. I have the same # of peices to carry but I got rid of about 150 lb of weight.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 13 Nov 1999 1:06 pm

From my Emmons, I go to the Goodrich pedal, to my ProFexII and into a Peavy Session 400, and old one, and into a Peavy LA-400, 12 inch
I get the rich, full bodied tones with great highs as well as lows. It's the finest combination I've found for the type of picking I do. I recently tried the new issue Fender twin-12 reverb and was terribly disappointed. It's all in the ear!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 13 Nov 1999 1:13 pm

Out from my guitar into the Lexicon MPX100, into my Derby volume pedal (2 outputs), individual outs to Sho~Bud Christmas and Cain Custom. Works for me.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 13 Nov 1999 6:19 pm

I've been using stereo for over 20 years now, not quite as long as Bill Stafford....

Here are some of the setups I have used:

1978-9: Session 400 with Webb. I used the preamp out from the session into an early MXR Digital delay into the Webb.

1980: Into a Yamaha rack analog delay, then into either a Session 400 and a Yamaha guitar amp, or two sessions (that was with Asleep at the Wheel, and it wasn't loud enough to keep up with Ray onstage). This is the same type of delay unit that JayDee still uses.

1981-86: Jim Kelley custom tube preamp into Yamaha Delay unit into power amp (Randall???) into a black widow 15" cab and a Kelley 1X12" JBL cab. I was seriously addicted to the chorus during this time....

Over the last 5 years or so I have played with a bunch of different preamps and efx units, but two elements of the rig that have stayed are my little THD tube heads and my THD speaker cabinet.

The reason I carry all of this stuff has very little to do with what the audience hears. Jeff is absolutely right that to get the best sound off stage, you want a simple mono signal to feed the sound guy. I do it because I like the way it sounds, and if I think I sound good, I play better.

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Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 13 Nov 1999 6:29 pm

On the other hand I like to get the worst possible tone. This forces me to work hard to overcome it, which makes me a better player.[This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 11-13-99]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Nov 1999 8:10 pm

I always wondered why you did that, Earnest.

I've been bit by the mono soundmen more than once. With my stack, you can't place one mike anywhere and get the full tone. I've toyed with the idea of carrying my own mikes, stand and mixer, just so I can feed a sound I can live with to the board.

Or I could take Mrs. Lee along to yell at the soundman - that works sometimes!

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Bobby Lee

www.b0b.com/products
Sierra Session S-12 E9th, Speedy West D-10, Sierra S-8 Lap

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 14 Nov 1999 10:09 am

Most of the gigs I play don't have a sound person, or if they do, all they do is yell at me to turn down. (I just tell them I can't hear them, the steel's too loud)

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www.tyacktunes.com [This message was edited by Dan Tyack on 11-14-99]

Jeff Hogsten · Post by **Jeff Hogsten** » 14 Nov 1999 12:33 pm

Ive had this stereo argument on everything from steel to keyboard to acoustic guitar. If you are running two amps to get a bigger sound for yourself OK but it wont help in the audience any. Some of yhe previous post talk about two amps one mike.If your running stereo and panning them to each side what do you want the people on the left side of the building to hear that the people on the right side arent going to. That is what will happen. About 10percent in the middle may hear the effect but to 80% of the audience it will sound worse. It may be great for records but not live. Have you ever heard drums on a record do a roll and go from one side to another. sounds great in your living room but set up a PA in stereo in a large building and try it and see what happens. You will hear what is panned to your side of the building loud and barely hear what is panned to the other side. Same thing with any instrument.Listen to Tommy White on TV one amp great clean tone

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Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 14 Nov 1999 5:44 pm

Back to my original point, Jeff. I don't run two amps for the stereo effect (or is that affect? I can never remember.). I just like the tone two amps give me. My two amps sit side by side and our PA is run mono. Most of the venues we play are so small that we don't even have to mike the instruments.

Lee, from South Texas

Jeff Hogsten · Post by **Jeff Hogsten** » 19 Nov 1999 4:00 pm

running 2 amps together because yo like the tone and blending them together is fine if that is what you want to do. Running them in stereo like other have suggested is entirley different. I suspect that is what everyone is really doing running two amps mono

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