Volume!

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 16 Nov 2006 6:06 pm

I've just arrived home from playing in a nearby tavern. My ears are buzzing and ringing and whatever else ears do when subjected to extreme volume. So I said to Brian:
"Why don't you turn it down?"
Get this!?
"They don't pay us enough to play quietly."
I am depressed.

Arch.

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 16 Nov 2006 8:42 pm

Reminds me of a Bizarro cartoon I saw a few years ago whereby two rather scruffy characters are busking with a tuba and a bass drum.

Their sign said "$10 and we keep quiet for 5 minutes".

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Nov 2006 6:00 am

Arch.Dave Grafe, a local sound system owner/engineer told me, and us here, something about the muscles in the ear.

It seems that of all the muscles affected by alcohol the very first are the muscles that attenuate noise in the ear. They're the muscles that make your ears rumble when you yawn. It makes a person's sensation change dramatically, and stops any protective action by the muscles of the eardrum mechanism. From what Dave sai, they become useless after a couple of drinks.

I'll post it if I get a chance.

Another one is Ibuprofen. Very bad for the hearing.

If I take even one during a night's worth of loud playing, I notice my ears ring a lot the next day.

EJL

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 17 Nov 2006 7:18 am

Yup. Long term, those muscles get kind of strained and cramped up and hard to relax. It seems to me that this contributes to hyper-acusis and tinnitus like so many of us musicians experience. The best solution is to always wear earplugs in loud situations, always. Long drives with windows open, wear earplugs. Power tools, wear earplugs. Loud live music, wear earplugs and get used to it.

I find that it's actually easier to hear conversation and the individual pieces in a band with ear plugs in. They cancel all the noise wash and also help alleviate the sound pressure that makes the ears cramp up and create all this hearing trouble that follows.

I've finally accepted that music with a snare drum in the band will inevitably get loud, unless maybe if it's jazz. But really, the snare gets hit with a stick, then the cymbals get hit to match, then the bass player turns up to match or beat the kick drum, then the guitarist turn up to hear the fullness of their sound over the bass, then the monitors get cranked to hear the vocals over all that, then it creeps up and up, and then the alcohol. It's virtually unstoppable.

Answer: earplugs or a drummer who will play with brushes instead of sticks.

IMHO

Brad

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 17 Nov 2006 7:42 am

For the past 6 months I've played a lot more live than I've done in the last few years, and there's no way around it - earplugs have become as necessary as the strings on my guitar..

Takes a while to get used to, especially if you're singing, but it's worth it. I'll probably invest in a couple of those "high-tech" plugs that's custom made for your ears and supposed to reduce evenly over the whole frequency spectrum so the sound doesn't get so muddy.

Steinar

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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 17 Nov 2006 8:25 am

I've graduated from that school:

1. Never play music where "beat" is considered lead. Drums and bass started as background and should remain.

2. Never play steel guitar in a band where the lead guitarist thinks distortion is a brilliant idea.

Addendum:
Jet engines and power tools should not be part of the band either.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 17 Nov 2006 8:33 am

I keep in my car two sets of regular Great Wall of China Mart ear plugs that they sell over in the sporting goods department. Before I go in to the gig, no matter what kind of gig it is or a concert or a bowling alley or whatever I stick a set in my pocket. Even on the legit gigs I do, the occasion arises where I am too close to say the trumpet section or the drums. I just stick in the plugs to the desired place that tempers the loud sounds. I don't go anywhere without them!

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 17 Nov 2006 10:14 am

I just stick in the plugs to the desired place that tempers the loud sounds

...what instrument didja say you play??

Archie Nicol · Post by **Archie Nicol** » 17 Nov 2006 3:12 pm

Hey, Rick. Do you know Brian and John?

Arch.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 22 Nov 2006 1:51 pm

Eric,

I swear to criminy, you just discovered the cause of my weird hearing problem. I just realized that my ears ring when I take ibuprofen but not when I take aspirin!

I'm always astounded at what I find out on SGF, but this has to top them all.

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My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I have no character. -- Charles Barkley

Eric McEuen · Post by **Eric McEuen** » 22 Nov 2006 4:07 pm

Another Eric here...

Thanks for bringing this up, Archie. The volume/hearing issue is very important to me. I have sensitive ears, and I want to depend on them for a long time to come. I've always used earplugs at high volumes.

Rolling Stone magazine ran a good article on the subject last year. It especially addresses iPods and rock music, but also has some fascinating research about hearing. It's posted here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8841090/music_making_fans_deaf

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 22 Nov 2006 4:47 pm

From the article, and relevant to a recently locked thread:

Quit smoking: It doubles the risk of noise-induced hearing loss. "After a loud show, the way you get better is through blood supply to your inner-ear nerve cells," says Chicago audiologist Michael Santucci. "If you do something cardiovascularly restrictive, like smoking, your blood supply won't be as good. You're being exposed to two toxins, the cardiovascular toxin and the noise toxin."

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 22 Nov 2006 5:55 pm

I've spent 40 years in front of a JBL. And to make matters worse, back in the 60's, I did the feedback solos. Needless to say, I don't hear very well. Still and all, now I wear ear plugs. Currently, I play with a metal/noise band. We're very loud, because that kind of music is supposed to be loud, and we all play with ear plugs.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 24 Nov 2006 6:51 pm

My friend Eric West, do you know anything about codeine and how it affects the hearing? I take my share of pain medications with codeine, vicodin, tylenol 3, straight codeine phosphate etc. Seems after taking 3 or 4, i can't stand any loud noice at all, sometimes even normal talking is loud and irriataing, everytime the drummer snaps that snare drum it sounds like a cannon going off. I once had a bad cold, my doctor prescribed a cough medication with codeine, i had to put cotton in my ears everytime i took that stuff. Anyone else ever have this side effect with anything that contains codeine?

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 24 Nov 2006 9:36 pm

You know George R I really don't. I know a famous radio announcer ODed on Oxycontin, and lost his hearing altogether. I know OXC is a synthetic codeine, but not what the effects of the real thing are. Probably not good in larger doses.

I've taken my share of vikes for tooth problems, and I ended up ditching them for Ibuprofen because I can't even take prescription opiates with drug tests for DOT and Ibuprofen kills dental pain a lot better for me at a medium dosage. Probably 6 a day when the pain was raging. Lots of people take a lot more than that.

I had a year where because of multiple root canals that went bad as soon as I got them, and other stuff, I ended up melting away a 750 count bottle of them. My ears rang most of the time, and I FINALLY shook them about 6 months ago. You end up having inflamation all over because your body gets used to them, and they raise hell with your liver. Now I just take an aspirin in the morning, and have gotten most of my dental disasters under control.....for now..

Doctors commonly prescribe pain management medicine that is taylored to the patient, and I'd ask him if you don't find something on the net about it.

I didn't know that about alcohol until Dave Grafe posted the thing about the eardrum attenuation muscles. I owe him a call anyhow. I'll see what he knows.

EJL

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 25 Nov 2006 1:25 am

I went to hear a band one night and they were so loud, I stuffed cocktail napkins in my ears and moved behind a wall where the pool tables were. Still deafening. Now I, too, carry earplugs everywhere I go. What gets me is why a band would play so loud that you can't understand the words to a song and you can't hear the individual instruments when they solo. Being a songwriter, it is important to me that you hear the words, especially if it's a novelty song and there's a punch line. And if you ask them to turn down, they take it as an insult and crank up even louder. I guess I have what you might call Pit Boss Mentality. My first pro gig was in Vegas, and if you were too loud and bugged the gamblers, the pit boss could pull your plug and another band stepped in asap. When I had my trio we played at the Iron Horse in Couer 'd lain (sp) Idaho. It was a small room. I told my guys to watch the cocktail waitress. If she had to bend down to hear an order in the 3rd row from the dance florr, we were too loud. Ya don't have to play to the back of the room. Those people sit there on purpose to get away from the loudness.
I was once told that ringing in the ears after taking aspirin is a sign that you have taken too much. It indicates overdose.

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Nate LaPointe · Post by **Nate LaPointe** » 25 Nov 2006 10:09 am

I accepted the fact that volume will be too high in most rock and country clubs. I bought custom musician ear plugs that fit perfectly in my ear canal and have a -15dB cut that's even across all frequencies. When I put them in, it's literally like turning the master volume knob down. I have -25dB filters also but those are too quiet.

Save your ears!

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www.natelapointe.net

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 26 Nov 2006 7:19 am

Ah, Nate! Would that I had done the same, years and years ago![This message was edited by James Cann on 27 November 2006 at 09:48 PM.]

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 26 Nov 2006 8:53 am

I had a rehearsal yesterday in a garage with the full band playing hard driving modern country. The PA mains were off and only the monitor mix was hot. I sat stage right, next to the bass player who was next to the drummer. small space, loud music... 17 hours later... I still hear a hiss, like an amp is on, in my head. Ear plugs will be necessary for the gig thursday!

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 26 Nov 2006 9:01 am

....Sorry I couldn't hear that,what did you say?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Nov 2006 9:48 am

Ya don't have to play to the back of the room. Those people sit there on purpose to get away from the loudness.

I concur, Dayna! The band with a sound man who decides it's best to "blanket the room" with sound doesn't see me too often. Likewise, miking all instruments all the time is usually a bad idea.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 26 Nov 2006 11:21 am

The only problem I've noticed with earplugs is that sometimes players who wear them tend to play louder. Also, I also tend to sing and play steel a tad sharp with the foam type of earplugs. A nice set of Westones are on my wish list.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 26 Nov 2006 12:13 pm

I tend to play too softly and I keep my amp away from me to compensate but this band plays loud, they play very well, sound great.... but LOUD.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 26 Nov 2006 2:16 pm

Did you ever use a meter to measure how loud the band really is? I got a cheap one but it only goes up to 120 dB so it was usually pinned with the Chris Gaffney band. I miss playing with Chris but I don't miss that volume level.
So I suggest a meter with a bigger range.