Major Minor Diminished Rules

Sherman Willden · Post by **Sherman Willden** » 6 Jun 2006 8:28 am

Please define the Major Minor Diminshed rules.

Thank you;

Sherman

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Jun 2006 8:45 am

I use diminished for
maj VII to I changes.

Also VI in a I VI, II, V progression.

I like half diminished for the #IV / bV between IV and V changes.
But full diminish works there also.

Many more usages will be forth coming no doubt.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 June 2006 at 09:45 AM.]

Adam Davis · Post by **Adam Davis** » 15 Jun 2006 4:50 pm

I tend to think of the diminished 7th chord as a rootless altered dominant. For instance, B diminished (B,D,F,Ab) can be used to replace G7. Over the root note G, those notes give you the third, fifth, lowered seventh, and flat nine. Hope that helps at all.

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 16 Jun 2006 7:28 am

I use the dim. chord of the same root to break up a long duration of a chord, the I chord usually, ie. instead of two measures of G, play G/Gdim/ G///. Similar effect to G/Gb/ G///.

I#dim between I and V7, ie. C/C#dim/ G7///. In a jazz progression that would be C/C#dim/ Dm7/G7/. The bass notes would be C C# D.

And, of course, IV IV# I, which is the same move.

The diminished chord can be generally used as a chromatic passing chord anywhere. Instead of, in the key of C, F F# G, play F F#dim G.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 16 Jun 2006 11:54 pm

And it inverts itself every 4 frets.
So you can use it for several long jumps
up the neck.

Our manouche lead player in France used it
when ever he was lost for an improvising idea.

Pretty much any note with in it
can be a root chord for it.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Jun 2006 3:16 am

I try to follow the voices* - in Leon Grizzard's first example, G - Gdim - G, that's 1-3-5 to 1-b3-b5 to 1-3-5: G-B-D to G-Bb-Db to G-B-D. If you continue the directional movement of the voices, you get 1-3-5 to 1-b3-b5 to 1-2-4, or: G-B-D to G-Bb-Db to G-A-C. G-A-C can be read as Am7, the IIm7 chord in the key of G, so you've got a smooth change from I to IIm7. It's more musical-sounding to me to follow the voices*, even if it means playing only two notes sometimes, than to try to cram every note from every chord into every measure.

*(Wanna join my cult?

)

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 27 Jun 2006 12:02 am

Quite often, a chord that is written dim. is actually a 5 chord with a lowered 9th or an altered dominant. You can sometimes replace a dim. with a dominant chord a tritone from the root. YMMV depending which tone you call the root. Often a passing chord from 1Maj to 2min. Zillions of other uses.

------------------
Got Twang ?

Mark

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 27 Jun 2006 8:46 am

David, isn't it every 3 frets? Aug is every 4 frets ... or do I have to start learning all over again? ...

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 27 Jun 2006 8:52 am

No Don, you are correct.

-John

Sherman Willden · Post by **Sherman Willden** » 27 Jun 2006 3:20 pm

Thank you to all. I was scanning a theory music book at Barnes and Nobel when that phrase stuck in my mind.

Sherman

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 27 Jun 2006 4:06 pm

I'm pretty sure that the "rules" were derived by scholars who were analyzing some post-Beethoven, post-Mozart classical music; I'm also pretty sure that the composers who were arriving at these combinations of notes were doing so through voice-movement, rather than by rules. Even the jazz and popular composers who went so haywire with this stuff in the mid-20th century were probably chasing voices, rather than following pre-derived "rules"; hence the somewhat bewildering range of replies to your question, which all seem to boil down to this:
If it feels good, do it!

Oh Nike, what hath you wrought....

[This message was edited by David Mason on 27 June 2006 at 05:07 PM.]