Singers vs. Steelers

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 21 Dec 2005 4:19 am

It's my feeling that pedal steel came into being as a way to emulate the 'moving' harmonies of mountain singing--holding one note in suspension while another vocalist changes a note.
I'd say a lot of instrumental music owes singing styles for its quality. Ella Fitzgerald created some fine lines to echo.
I hear Billy Holiday in some of Miles' work.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 21 Dec 2005 6:11 am

Quote: "Most of the musicians on this site, myself included, couldn't carrry Ella Fitzgerald's laundry, when she was alive."
Right, Andy G. Especially her underwear!

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 21 Dec 2005 3:06 pm

A great singer is a great communicator. A good singer is not. My wife is a great one, at home, at church, or in the clubs, there is something there that us mere mortals can never do.
A great singer can do his/her thing a capella and bring you to tears. Maybe a steel can do that,or guitar or piano, but not like a singer. JimP

Glenn Womack · Post by **Glenn Womack** » 21 Dec 2005 10:14 pm

I might as well voice my opinion on the subject. The day a person is born, he is destined to be a singer or to be tone deaf, or somewhere in between. Every decent musician I ever heard had to devote the majority of his life learning his instrument.

I admit a singer also has to practice also, to strengthen his/her voice and work out a style. My point is that the one born that can carry a tune will be able to sing with no practice, even if only in the shower. Not so with a complicated instrument. (Also I wouldn't recommend an electric instrument in the shower.)There are few singers I would walk a block to hear. However, there are a few.

Glenn

Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 25 Dec 2005 10:51 pm

Tommy M:

I like your list of singers as well......just add a few.......Bobby Flores, Amber Digby, Johnny Bush, Dale Watson, and Heather Myles. I really don't buy any other singers.....these people let the band take center stage too. It is a requirement for me.

Ben Rubright · Post by **Ben Rubright** » 25 Dec 2005 11:01 pm

Whoops..................I must not forget Curtis Potter........!!!!!!!! As Dwight D. Eisenhower once said, "To enumerate is to omit".

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 25 Dec 2005 11:22 pm

I do not know too many places if any that book a band because of its steel player or any instrumentalist to be more precise.

Guitarist Jim Campilongo fronts a popular club act in the Bay Area. He sometimes includes Bobby Black or Joe Goldmark on steel and advertises the fact.

Small instrumental acts do pretty well in the wineries around here. Most of them aren't country, but they do get booked.

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Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 26 Dec 2005 4:12 am

Guitarist Jim Campilongo fronts a popular club act in the Bay Area.

After hearing Jim Compilongo's recordings with Joe Goldmark, I can only conclude that he is an extraterrestial with 4 hands and 27 fingers on each hand.

Nobody with only 10 fingers can play that good.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 26 Dec 2005 7:12 am

Lest we forget.
most instrumentalists are considered great;
if they can approach the control
and emotion of the human voice with their instrument.

The voice is generally the benchmark to which we aspire.
It's just that in the pop music world....
too many singers do NOT aspire to
have one of those great voices.

Dare I say... Ashlee... cringe.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 26 Dec 2005 9:50 am

Jim Campilongo lives in NY (where he backs many singers).[This message was edited by Mike Neer on 26 December 2005 at 09:51 AM.]

JERRY THURMOND · Post by **JERRY THURMOND** » 26 Dec 2005 2:50 pm

A good singer will get my attention so will a good song, but seldom are they found togather now days. This is not counting Rap Ovbiopusly

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 27 Dec 2005 12:01 am

Whew! I am almost afraid to step in...I have known for decades that musicians usually hate singers, especially chick singers. Of course the musicians want to be heard. We are all in the biz for recognition. We all know we would play for free to an appreciative audience. Uncle Bob did a radio interview years ago and he said, in part, "I really like it when someone requests an old fiddle breakdown, but you've got to have the singer". One of the goals I aspire to is to sing well, have fun, and not be a pain in the ---!

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Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 27 Dec 2005 8:42 am

'Tis a lot more fun to play with musicians that have a clue, than with vocalists that just enjoy the sound of their own voice.

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 27 Dec 2005 9:03 am

There are two types of musicians/singers; Those who see the music as a vehicle for their own ego, and those who see themselves as humble servants of the music.

If you're in the last category it doesn't matter if you're a drummer, guitarist or singer. You're there for the music, and if you have the necessary skills you'll do good.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 27 Dec 2005 9:37 am

I think Steinar nailed it. I have not noticed much lack of ego among guitarists and drummers, or among steelers. Ego is not something limited to singers.

And Dayna, I don't think you should misinterpret this thread to imply that instrumentalists usually hate singers - just crass, insensitive, egotistical ones, or tone-deaf ones. Except for maybe a small jazz group, the last thing I want is a group of instrumentalists with no decent singer. The first thing I want is a group fronted by a good singer, especially a "chick singer." I love 'em.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 27 Dec 2005 9:50 am

I am one of your best fans Dayna. My comment was that I have never learned the "lyrics" to songs, not to be interpreted as not appreciating good vocalists!

Luv ya Dayna.....

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Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 27 Dec 2005 10:32 am

I've been forced to sing over the years, just to keep gigging for the most part...but that's another thread.

One thing I've always noticed is that there is a HUGE percentage of the general listening audience that ONLY tunes into the singer and lyrics. When I first hear a piece of music myself, my ear always is drawn to the musical elements first, then (maybe) the I might try to make out the lyrics if I'm still interested in the song.

There have been many times where I'll be singing a song that I had to force myself to learn (usually the hard way...often with a cheat-sheet), when I'll look out and see that most of the audience already knows the words better than I do...even though I'm the one doing the singing. I think some people simply have the gene, some don't, but I do think that connecting with the lyrics of a well written song is a good thing for us to do as instrumentalists.

Dayna Wills · Post by **Dayna Wills** » 28 Dec 2005 12:23 am

Steinar,
I always wanted to be good at the music. I wasn't there to "cut one out of the herd," and those chick singers who were there just for that really made it hard on those of us who were serious about the music.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 28 Dec 2005 6:19 am

I've been forced to sing over the years....

Nothing forced about Porkpie Hat. I love that rare piece where instrument and vocal can't be separated, both required to get THE SONG across.

I love instrumental music. But nothing makes me want to play like a 'chick' singer.

And this is my favorite quote of the year:

It's subjective as to what crap is.--Theresa Galbraith

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 28 Dec 2005 6:42 am

I like a song to be balanced. No one trying to upstage the rest of the band. That means Singers as well as instruments. To me thats what paints the perfect musical picture.

Take a great singer, and put a sorry band around them and see what you get. Take a great band and give them a sorry singer and see what you get.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 8 May 2006 11:11 am

I dug this topic out of the archives because of a seminar I attended yesterday.

I will be the first to agree, because of the dedication involved and the "woodshedding factor" before one can call themself a decent steel player- that in comparison, many vocalists are overrrated and a dime a dozen.

Our church band director is a former member of the San Francisco Opera, and an outstanding pianist. She also teaches voice and has given me some lessons. We attended a workshop put on by her mentor, a guy named Dave Stroud. He and his mentor, Seth Riggs, are trainers in a method called Speech Level Singing, which is headquartered in Los Angeles and they have worked with many famous vocalists.

During the seminar, five vocalists (thankfully I wasn't one of them) sang a song accompanied by piano, and Mr. Stroud critiqued each singer-had us put in our two cents-then in a very detailed manner instructed them as to how to improve their performance.

He showed us some techniques that one employs, to be repeated over and over in practice until they become second nature, like when a picker practices scales.

I'm not revealing any holy grail type stuff-most here know that one benefits from voice training, but I had a little better understanding of why Dave Stroud gets $150 per hour as a voice teacher.
This is serious stuff, and it gave me a new level of appreciation for vocal skills and the voice as an instrument.

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 08 May 2006 at 02:08 PM.][This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 08 May 2006 at 02:10 PM.]

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 8 May 2006 7:00 pm

Guys, normaly I would not chime in but, I feel sining and lyrics add tension to music as one who thinks in terms of "pure" music. There are very few singers I like in fact, I would wager that there aren't many good vocalist in most venues of music. Try to think of this in this terms; imagine the singer without the band, no instruments. Would his or her voice stand on its own? It would depend on who you ask I suppose but, you get the idea. J.C.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 8 May 2006 7:29 pm

Oh, and I think I can recognise Kenny Chesney when I hear him . . . don't like it very much, but I can recognise him.

What need to recognize? All you need do is access GAC or any other country music cable channel. Odds are (I place 2 in 3) he's who you'll see and hear.

Doesn't take long for me to switch. He (or just about anyone else they present, for that matter) is not what I'm looking for.

Bunky Markert · Post by **Bunky Markert** » 8 May 2006 7:35 pm

Question: Will George Benson's tombstone list that he was a great singer or a great guitarist? I think the answer is ovbiopusly a great singer. Same with Glen Campbell (maybe drinker would be included in there too). Singing is simply recognized as a higher art form, over any instrumentalist.

Yeah, it is tiresome there are so many average singers out there, but think how fortunate we are that steel playing isn't more popular. Is the Ashlee Simpson equivalent on steel in our midst? I hope not. Besides, what would you call that, bar-syncing?

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 8 May 2006 7:57 pm

I wish I could sing.