Can We Still Play The Music We Love?

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

Well b0b, IMHO you're wrong.

The recent "resurgence" or Johnny Cash among the youngest, headbangiest of crowds is a good case in point.

Young people know phonies, and they generally don't like bands that dress "casually".

Call it "Retro", wear some REAL Country Western Outfits, Play it LOUD like it was REALLY played when Buck, Ray, Waylon, and yes even Ray Played it with a backbeat that rattles the windows like it was REALLY played and you'll pack the house.

Kids like the Real Thing.

The Future's a Train. Get on it or..

JMHO.

EJL

Darryl Hattenhauer · From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

It's really encouraging to hear about all of the interest out there in the good stuff. Looks like bOb and Darryl are out of it.

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

I'd add that the Austin audiences are not just older crowds. Places like Ginny's Little Longhorn, Poodies Hilltop, etc. have quite a mix of young and old.

My daughter (23 years old) sings and plays keyboard and guitar in a group in Austin that I'd have to call alt-something or other, but they are very passionate about what they do. Based on the demos I've heard they take a lot of time working up arrangements, harmonies etc. It's not 'just noise', whether it might be your cup of tea or not.

She showed up the other day all excited with a vinyl record she found in a used record shop somewhere. It was one of the Loretta / Conway records, and she and her whole band thought it was great. I found out they've got a lot of Hank Williams, some other Loretta stuff, and other older country (almost all on vinyl) and that they listen to it as a band all the time, and really like it. Go figure...

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

I'll take the old stuff. I spent the weekend practising and playing a hunnert different ways "Just out of reach (of my two open arms)" by Patsy Cline. What a beautiful tune.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

quote:
The recent "resurgence" or Johnny Cash among the youngest, headbangiest of crowds is a good case in point...

The Future's a Train. Get on it or...

Eric, I presume your last comment was on the order of "Get on the train, or get run over by it". This, however, seems to pose a dichotomy. Johnny Cash sang a lot about trains, but he never really "got on the train". He didn't change his music, style, presentation, or manner of dress with the myriad of changes in popular music. In fact, he was the probably one of the "ultimate traditionalists" of country music, all the while maintaining a pretty consistent presence and popularity throughout his career. In short, he remained true to his roots. Yet, you say the "headbangers" seem to adore him.

How does this fit in with the many who theorize that "change is inevitable"?

Comments?

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 May 2006 at 08:30 AM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The song that prompted this topic was Ray Price "Walk Me To The Door". Can we still play music with lyrics like this?

quote:
Walk me to the door and hold me close just one more time

Kiss me just once more the way you did when you were mine

The longest walk I'll ever take will be across the floor

That's why I'm asking one last favor, walk me to the door

I don't know any venues around here where you can get away with lyrics like that.

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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

And when that tune was new, we were listening to it on either a jukebox, or an a car radio with a single 6x9 speaker, or a Zenith table top with a 5" round cone.
No subwoofer tracks...(bumpa bumpa bumpa)
Life was simpler then.

Ken Thompson · From: Great Falls, Montana, USA

This thread has kind of taken two different roads so I'll start with the first road.

I agree, the lyrics of the 50's & 60's are probably gone forever. I don't think "romance" of those days will be seen again for awhile. I think romance for life, sincerity and the sentimentality of the time in the lyrics of songs is gone. You still hear "love" thoughts but not like the lyrics of those decades. Songs reflect attitudes of the times and now days there is much less emphasis put on romance and love that lasts forever. It is more about immediate gratification and the party. Love lasts "one night" not a life time. There are some exceptions (songs) but not many.

I am 54 and love to play Ray, Buck, Merle etc. but we also have to play many other types of music. We typically play the one night event type gigs where variety is a must. Everything from Jones to a little bit of Poison. No matter the age of the crowd, we throw in Buck and Ray. The young kids dance right along with it but they don't want a steady of diet of it just as they don't want a steady diet of the soft rock that we can do.

Sometimes they don't know what they like until you play it. If you tell them who's song you are going to play they may jump to an assumption that they don't like it. Throw it at them and they are enjoying it before they realize to who's song that you are doing.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I don't think there's anything wrong, or hokey, about those lyrics. I think the issue is delivery - if they're delivered in a late-60s-Nashville syrupy way, they're probably not going to go over to a younger crowd. But if they're delivered without the syrup as an authentic honkytonk song, I think they'll work. Classics like "Brand New Heartache", "Heartaches by the Number", and so on, work just fine, as does pretty much anything by Hank Sr. - to a listening audience at least.

If we're talking about modern writers like Iris Dement, Gillian Welch, Dwight Yoakum, Robert Earl Keen, Ryan Adams, and so on, the lyrics are not just throwaway like in a lot of modern country, rock, etc. Raw emotion and tenderness are not gone in all new music. As I said in the earlier post, the type of audience I'm talking about reviles the pap of modern party music - it doesn't matter whether it's styled as country, classic rock, southern rock, heavy metal, whatever.

Anyway, that's my experience. I guess it depends on the audience.

Larry Strawn · From: Golden Valley, Arizona, R.I.P.

Dave M.

I believe it goes deeper than the crowd you're playing for, which means a lot.

I think a lot is how well the band can deliver that particular song to them.

If "I" tried to mix Jimi H. in with Ray, it wouldn't go at all!! lol..

Larry

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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 08 May 2006 at 11:36 AM.]

Mark Eaton · Posted 8 May 2006 10:35 am

I agree with Dave-I think it's in the delivery. I think it has to be the "real deal" in the way that Johnny Cash had a resurgence with younger folks that have a collection of tattoos and piercings.

On the tribute to Cindy Walker CD, an old guy like Willie Nelson gives a new take to those great songs, and Buddy Emmons chips in some great playing.

The western swing band that plays around Northern California, "Lost Weekend," attracts a pretty diverse crowd. The steel playing of Bobby Black in that band reaches across all barriers. I've seen younger folks having a good time dancing to "Faded Love" at their gigs and "I miss you darlin' more and more every day, like Heaven would miss the stars above" can certainly be preceived as pretty hokey-but everyone still loves it!

We invited a couple of friends to meet us at the venue the last time we saw them-and they became instant fans-bought the group's CD. They wouldn't know Bob Wills from Maury Wills! (that was for all you old Dodger fans-attention Jody Carver!).

Think of the recent resurgence of Loretta Lynn with Jack White of the White Stripes and a fairly young touring band. Loretta became hip again, with a lot of twenty-somethings!

b0b and I live about 20 minutes from each other-and I disagree-I think this region is one where you could pull off doing a number of those classic Ray Price tunes.

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Mark

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Bobby Lee, the original topic mentioned old fashioned lyrics. Lyrics about "Love" and lost "LOVE", never are out of style, and are never old fashioned. I ask my 23 year old daughter why she liked Raskal Flatts and she said, "Because they sing LOVE songs". Study the lyrics of Ray Price songs and then see if you understand the following: When I set out last year to produce a new CD with original 4/4 suffle tunes, I gave all my song writing friends some ground rules to go by. #1-No drinking songs. #2-Put the woman on a pedistal #3-If anyone is wrong, it is the man #4 All songs are to be about a man caring for a woman. The Ray Price tune: "Walk Me To The Door" does not have old fashioned lyrics. The message in this song is as old as mankind, and will fit mankind to the end of time. Love and love lost is a powerful basic human emotion. Listen to the words in the sound sample of my CD, then think of the Lyrics of the old Ray Price songs. Love and love lost will never be old fasioned, even if you like boys instead of girls.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

I really liked Eric West's replay--and I agree with it. From my other posts I got several e-mails from drummers. Here is my advise: If playing Ray Price type 4/4 shuffle drums bores you and makes you feel like a metronome quit playing that type of music. Play some other type of music where you can make some NOISE and get noticed. In my opinion, Ray Price type of 4/4 shuffle drumming is as complicated as any type of drumming. I liked what one drummer said to me in an e-mail. He said, "The test of a good drummer is how well they can restrain themself". I agree that PRESENTATION is as important as the music. Study Estivon in the Geico commercial on T.V.

[This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 08 May 2006 at 01:21 PM.]

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Studying television commercials is never a good idea, IMHO.

Bob Hickish · From: Port Ludlow, Washington, USA, R.I.P.

b0b
every once in a wile we will play a rest
home ! and thats were lyrics make a
difference ! say ! " Farewell party "

Darryl Hattenhauer · From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Mark,

Speaking of the Wills Brothers (Bob, Billy Jack, and Maury) I saw Maury playing a 4 string banjo in a Shakey's Pizza in Sacramento. At the time, I was taking 4-string banjo lessons from Tiny Moore, who had been with Billy Jack in Sacramento at their own sort of musical commune called Wills Point, which even had a swimming pool, where I went as a kid and heard live music poolside--a bassist and drummer with a chick singer. I know for a fact that they were Mingus, Ginger Baker, and Loretta. I heard the Billy Jack band live a lot on the radio.

bOb,
I know one guy who'd sing that. Hints:
He originally went to Nashville to try to make it in country. His first group was The Buckskin Boys. He's Canadian. Give up? Surprise: Leonard Cohen.

[This message was edited by Darryl Hattenhauer on 08 May 2006 at 02:33 PM.]

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Eric West, I agree with you also.

Mark Eaton · Posted 8 May 2006 4:33 pm

Great story, Darryl. One time I went to an electric mandolin seminar put on at San Jose State by Tiny Moore. He was the coolest!

Here is something I gleaned off a Maury Wills biography: " Many were surprised to discover Will's talents go beyond the world of baseball when he appeared on stage in Las Vegas with a banjo at the Sahara, Desert Inn and Union Plaza hotels."

He's a cool guy too, even if he was a member of the dreaded Dodgers.

Go Giants!

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Mark

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Traditional Pop standard's are the way to go.

Always, Stardust, Mood Indigo. etc

My opinion.

Jody Carver · From: KNIGHT OF FENDER TWEED

Hey Mark, watch that dreaded Dodgers stuff, I'm a Dodgers fan you know. Dodger Blue Forever.

Darryl Hattenhauer · From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Marc,

Yeah, Tiny was just the happiest, nicest, most good-natured guy i ever met.

I was a giants fan when they were in NY, so you can imagine what a thrill it was when they came to SF. I could probably guess the starting line up of their first game.

Jody,

That's not your opinion about those standards. That's eternal truth.

Go Dodgers? That's your opinion. In the first big league game in the West, the Giants beat 'em 8-0. So take that!

Actually I like the Dodgers too. Went to Chavez once. Much nicer park than that stinking Candlestick.

Last time I saw the Dodgers at the stick, MnCovey was back and hit # 496 and #497. I got photos. The crowd was really hostile, as they often were in SF. (I never could figure that out. You'd think they'd be throwing flowers.) Some guy was standing at the end of the Dodgers' dugout and yelling threats. And nut case La Sorda actually came down to the end of the dugout and challenged the guy to a fight. Rick Monday looked genuinely afraid, like a riot was about to break out and fans would swarm the dugout and chase the Dodgers into their clubhouse.

I think that was in about '76. Ron Cey was still with the Dodgers. I think Brenly was with the Giants. I sure liked him as a manager and announcer. To keep from totally hijacking the thread, I should say that Brenly is quite knowledgeable about music.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Would Estavon sell if he took off his dark sun glasses,and the lines around his eyes revealed his real age? What if Estavon changed hats and wore a cowboy hat instead of that big black Spanish hat, would the reaction of the audience change? Would it make a difference if he was bald? Would it make a difference if his hair was white like mine? Just wondering B0B.

Nic du Toit · From: Milnerton, Cape, South Africa

Beside the fact that I dearly love the 'old' style country, I reckon that with me (still) playing it will help keeping it alive!

Regards,
nic

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Nic du Toit
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George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Eric and Jody have nailed it...we play 90% pop, with Ray, Merle, Jones, polkas, waltz's thrown in....you'll work every week~end, and pack the house. I wonder how many steel players could play a good polka on the steel? but then again with the likes of Big & Rich around, and watching the girls shake it to Toby Keith songs....who would want to play a polka....and just a couple of years ago.Tony Bennett did a come back..where MTV of all places..you can sell your music to kids..like Erics says..it's all in the presentation. And a "Good" drummer is worth his weight in gold to a dance band.....

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