Billy Hughes Buccaroos or Pecos Pals
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Deborah Mundell
- Posts: 31
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- Location: Arizona, USA
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Billy Hughes Buccaroos or Pecos Pals
Anybody know who the Buccaroos were? Or the Pecos Pals? I'm trying to put together a biography of Billy. I believe he played for Jack Guthrie, Luke Wills, maybe Johnny Bond, Terry Fell. I can't find much on the web. Have a discography and songs written (BMI), some family history, but thats about it. Saw some discussion here a couple years ago where Mitch Drumm said he helped Doug McGinnis on the cassette / tribute, which I recently aquired a copy of. Love the tape. Any help would be appreciated.
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Mitch Drumm
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- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Deborah:
Billy was and is a personal favorite. I compiled a discography many years ago that may have found its way into your hands.
He died in Horatio Arkansas probably 12 or 15 years ago. I talked to him a few times on the phone in the 80s, but never met him.
He went to his grave with only the rumors of whether or not Presley really did cut "Tennessee Saturday Night" at Sun, as has been rumored for decades. Too bad it never surfaced, as Billy could surely have used the royalties on his best known song.
In his final years, he was involved with a singer/song plugger guy that Billy fed newly written songs to, in hopes they might get some publicity and get recorded legitimately. That never materialized and it gave me the creeps to realize how tough things must have been at his age to have to resort to such a dubious scheme that had virtually no chance.
His memory was not too good, but he did remember playing fiddle on Guthrie's sessions--he complained that Cliffie Stone was running things and was incessantly watching the clock and rushing the musicians. And he certainly recalled playing at Murphy's in LA in the 40s.
Doug led me to Billy and I am grateful to him for that. I wasn't really happy with the way that cassette came out, but I didn't have any control over it.
You can get the majority of his career output on CD through Al Turner of Hillbilly Researcher mag out of England. Somewhere near 30 songs.
He made his final recording and only 45 RPM in 1959 in Prescott AZ. Take a gander and listen at
http://els51.law.emory.edu/rcs/artists/h/hugh1000.htm
I don't think all the sidemen are documented, but among them were Leodie Jackson and Curly Cochran on steel. Cochran playing that knocked out and very primitive bluesy style that you can't hardly get any more. He's another guy in my personal hall of fame that Doug knew in LA during the prehistoric era.
Billy told me that he appeared in several films:
Reap The Wild Wind, with Ray Milland
Northwest Mounted Police, with Gary Cooper
Riding Through Nevada, (1942, with Charles Starrett and Jimmie Davis)
Unknown film with "Mountain" in the title, with Gene Autry
Cowboy Canteen aka Barnyard Canteen, (1943 with Charles Starrett, Jimmy Wakely, Roy Acuff, and The Mills Brothers)
He may have been in "Cyclone Prairie Rangers" with Charles Starrett, Jimmie Davis, and Jimmy Wakely.
I don't think he sang in any of these films. I saw one of the Davis films and he was not mentioned in the credits and I did not notice him onscreen, so I assume these were all minor bit parts when he was struggling in Southern California.
I really miss him and he remains one of my all-time favorite artists and songwriters.
I assume you have heard "Atomic Sermon". I can't recall if it was on the cassette Doug put out, but I think it was part of the soundtrack for "The Atomic Cafe" film from the early 1990s. Maybe his best performance?
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mitch Drumm on 03 February 2006 at 03:19 AM.]</p></FONT>
Billy was and is a personal favorite. I compiled a discography many years ago that may have found its way into your hands.
He died in Horatio Arkansas probably 12 or 15 years ago. I talked to him a few times on the phone in the 80s, but never met him.
He went to his grave with only the rumors of whether or not Presley really did cut "Tennessee Saturday Night" at Sun, as has been rumored for decades. Too bad it never surfaced, as Billy could surely have used the royalties on his best known song.
In his final years, he was involved with a singer/song plugger guy that Billy fed newly written songs to, in hopes they might get some publicity and get recorded legitimately. That never materialized and it gave me the creeps to realize how tough things must have been at his age to have to resort to such a dubious scheme that had virtually no chance.
His memory was not too good, but he did remember playing fiddle on Guthrie's sessions--he complained that Cliffie Stone was running things and was incessantly watching the clock and rushing the musicians. And he certainly recalled playing at Murphy's in LA in the 40s.
Doug led me to Billy and I am grateful to him for that. I wasn't really happy with the way that cassette came out, but I didn't have any control over it.
You can get the majority of his career output on CD through Al Turner of Hillbilly Researcher mag out of England. Somewhere near 30 songs.
He made his final recording and only 45 RPM in 1959 in Prescott AZ. Take a gander and listen at
http://els51.law.emory.edu/rcs/artists/h/hugh1000.htm
I don't think all the sidemen are documented, but among them were Leodie Jackson and Curly Cochran on steel. Cochran playing that knocked out and very primitive bluesy style that you can't hardly get any more. He's another guy in my personal hall of fame that Doug knew in LA during the prehistoric era.
Billy told me that he appeared in several films:
Reap The Wild Wind, with Ray Milland
Northwest Mounted Police, with Gary Cooper
Riding Through Nevada, (1942, with Charles Starrett and Jimmie Davis)
Unknown film with "Mountain" in the title, with Gene Autry
Cowboy Canteen aka Barnyard Canteen, (1943 with Charles Starrett, Jimmy Wakely, Roy Acuff, and The Mills Brothers)
He may have been in "Cyclone Prairie Rangers" with Charles Starrett, Jimmie Davis, and Jimmy Wakely.
I don't think he sang in any of these films. I saw one of the Davis films and he was not mentioned in the credits and I did not notice him onscreen, so I assume these were all minor bit parts when he was struggling in Southern California.
I really miss him and he remains one of my all-time favorite artists and songwriters.
I assume you have heard "Atomic Sermon". I can't recall if it was on the cassette Doug put out, but I think it was part of the soundtrack for "The Atomic Cafe" film from the early 1990s. Maybe his best performance?
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mitch Drumm on 03 February 2006 at 03:19 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Deborah Mundell
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 2 Feb 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Arizona, USA
- Contact:
Mitch
thanks for the insight - I never knew he did any films, I'll have to look for them. I have a show banner that was found in a basement in Prescott that I assume was from the same period as his Big D recording. I have collected many of his records - do you know if the Rocky Ship recording is Billy or someone else? Just bought RCA recording of Luke Wills "Texas Special" - sounds just like the tape. It doesn't say it was sung by Billy, Just "with vocal refrain" - I suspect this recording is of Billy as well.
The tape does have Atomic Sermon on it, although it is titles SamJohnson Ain't my Name on the tape.
Stop that Stuff has got to be my favorite, followed by Ain't That Too Bad, then Texas Special. I agree the tape is not the best quality, but it sounds sweet to me - s8uch fun songs and Billy really did have a nice voice.
I read a bio somewhere & wish I could find it again that said Billy got tired of the rat race in California. I imagine his song "Better Stay In Arkansas" is a reflection of his feelings at the time.
I sent a letter to Billy's daughter in Utah, but got no response. I guess she's either not able or not interested in sharing.
Thanks again for your info - I would really like to get some more photos of Billy since the only one I have is from the tape cover. Maybe I can find some in the films you mentioned.
If you ever find anything else, or recall anything else about Billy, feel free to email me directly - deb24076@cox.net.
If I ever get a website up about Billy, I'll let you know.
thanks for the insight - I never knew he did any films, I'll have to look for them. I have a show banner that was found in a basement in Prescott that I assume was from the same period as his Big D recording. I have collected many of his records - do you know if the Rocky Ship recording is Billy or someone else? Just bought RCA recording of Luke Wills "Texas Special" - sounds just like the tape. It doesn't say it was sung by Billy, Just "with vocal refrain" - I suspect this recording is of Billy as well.
The tape does have Atomic Sermon on it, although it is titles SamJohnson Ain't my Name on the tape.
Stop that Stuff has got to be my favorite, followed by Ain't That Too Bad, then Texas Special. I agree the tape is not the best quality, but it sounds sweet to me - s8uch fun songs and Billy really did have a nice voice.
I read a bio somewhere & wish I could find it again that said Billy got tired of the rat race in California. I imagine his song "Better Stay In Arkansas" is a reflection of his feelings at the time.
I sent a letter to Billy's daughter in Utah, but got no response. I guess she's either not able or not interested in sharing.
Thanks again for your info - I would really like to get some more photos of Billy since the only one I have is from the tape cover. Maybe I can find some in the films you mentioned.
If you ever find anything else, or recall anything else about Billy, feel free to email me directly - deb24076@cox.net.
If I ever get a website up about Billy, I'll let you know.
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Mike Gross
- Posts: 3571
- Joined: 30 Aug 2005 12:01 am
- Location: Manchester, Connecticut, USA
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Mitch & Deborah,
When our mutual friend Doug issued that cassette, he sent me a copy for use on my "Swingin' West" radio show. He also had Billy get in touch with me. I thought that Billy would be thrilled that I was playing his old 78 recordings on air back in the 1980s and 90s. I was really chagrined also that Billy was really only interested in my playing some of his new songs that in no way resembled anything that can be used on a Western Swing show. He seemed to have little or no intererst in his great compositions and recordings of the past. As a footnote, I am still playing his music (not the 80s stuff)for the world to hear.
Mike Gross www.swinginwest.com
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mike Gross on 03 February 2006 at 06:42 AM.]</p></FONT>
When our mutual friend Doug issued that cassette, he sent me a copy for use on my "Swingin' West" radio show. He also had Billy get in touch with me. I thought that Billy would be thrilled that I was playing his old 78 recordings on air back in the 1980s and 90s. I was really chagrined also that Billy was really only interested in my playing some of his new songs that in no way resembled anything that can be used on a Western Swing show. He seemed to have little or no intererst in his great compositions and recordings of the past. As a footnote, I am still playing his music (not the 80s stuff)for the world to hear.
Mike Gross www.swinginwest.com
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Mike Gross on 03 February 2006 at 06:42 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Deborah Mundell
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- Joined: 2 Feb 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Arizona, USA
- Contact:
Hi Mike,
I guess Billy wanted to let the past be in the past. I agree that his country stuff is great – the only thing I found on the web for his later years is some copyrights on some religious music he did with Don Albright.
Thanks for the link – I’ll listen while I’m at work hackin’ at the computer.
I’m going to try to add a photo of the show banner I have that I need to get restored. It was found shoved in a sewer pipe in the basement of a Prescott AZ building on Whiskey Row. Must be from 1959.
http://members.cox.net/deb24076/billyhughesbanner.jpg
Guess that didn't work?? Well, youre all welcome to take a look at what I have on my personal webspace. Photos of the records I have by Billy and others who recorded his music. Plus a big excel spreadsheet I'm using to compile info.
http://members.cox.net/deb24076/
Thanks for your input.
I guess Billy wanted to let the past be in the past. I agree that his country stuff is great – the only thing I found on the web for his later years is some copyrights on some religious music he did with Don Albright.
Thanks for the link – I’ll listen while I’m at work hackin’ at the computer.
I’m going to try to add a photo of the show banner I have that I need to get restored. It was found shoved in a sewer pipe in the basement of a Prescott AZ building on Whiskey Row. Must be from 1959.
http://members.cox.net/deb24076/billyhughesbanner.jpg
Guess that didn't work?? Well, youre all welcome to take a look at what I have on my personal webspace. Photos of the records I have by Billy and others who recorded his music. Plus a big excel spreadsheet I'm using to compile info.
http://members.cox.net/deb24076/
Thanks for your input.
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Herb Steiner
- Posts: 12505
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Spicewood TX 78669
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Billy Hughes played in Spade Cooley's band in 1942, along with Jack "Tex" Williams, Pedro DePaul, Eddie Bennett, Denver Dehne, Sonny Olvera, Rusty Cline, Dick Roberts (steel), and Arkie Perryman.
I have a Spade Cooley Waltz Contest violin, from December 1942, with the band members' autographs on the back. There's Billy's name, right there.
Jason Odd is the leading historian I know of for this type of information. He should be chiming in pretty soon.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
I have a Spade Cooley Waltz Contest violin, from December 1942, with the band members' autographs on the back. There's Billy's name, right there.
Jason Odd is the leading historian I know of for this type of information. He should be chiming in pretty soon.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Deborah Mundell
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- Location: Arizona, USA
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Well Herb, I must say thanks for the praise, but my area is definately more the 1960s and 1970s West Coast scene and music from that period in general.
I've always considered myself a dabbler when it comes to western swing, I suspect that Mitch here has probably forgottten more than I know.
I don't really have anything to add, he does appear on Jack Guthrie's debut Capitol recording session on October 16, 1944. The backing band are listed as the Oklahomans; consisting of Porky Freedman (lead guitar), Red Murrell (rhythm guitar), Cliffie Stone (bass), and Billy Hughes (fiddle), essentially a Hollywood Hillbilly dream band for the 1940s, of course no Merle Travis, but most of these guys were on his records from the same period.
Anyway, the guys listed cut Guthrie's first single "Oklahoma Hills," the B-side, "I'm Brandin My Darlin' With My Heart," and a cover of an Ernest Tubb number, "Careless Darlin" on that date.
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Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.
I've always considered myself a dabbler when it comes to western swing, I suspect that Mitch here has probably forgottten more than I know.
I don't really have anything to add, he does appear on Jack Guthrie's debut Capitol recording session on October 16, 1944. The backing band are listed as the Oklahomans; consisting of Porky Freedman (lead guitar), Red Murrell (rhythm guitar), Cliffie Stone (bass), and Billy Hughes (fiddle), essentially a Hollywood Hillbilly dream band for the 1940s, of course no Merle Travis, but most of these guys were on his records from the same period.
Anyway, the guys listed cut Guthrie's first single "Oklahoma Hills," the B-side, "I'm Brandin My Darlin' With My Heart," and a cover of an Ernest Tubb number, "Careless Darlin" on that date.
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Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly.
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Deborah Mundell
- Posts: 31
- Joined: 2 Feb 2006 1:01 am
- Location: Arizona, USA
- Contact:
For Mitch Drumm or anyone else who may know:
I have found a composer credit for Billy Hughes with Cal Shrum and his Rhythm Rangers on the movie "Thunder Over the Prairie" - 1941 - with Charles Starrett in the cast. see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034289/
I also have found a recording of a duet with Billy Hughes and Lee Wiley / Victor Young orchestra from NY in 1933 - a song titled "You're an old Smoothie". Billy would have been 25 years old at this time.
Does anyone know if either of these is the same Billy Hughes?
I have found a composer credit for Billy Hughes with Cal Shrum and his Rhythm Rangers on the movie "Thunder Over the Prairie" - 1941 - with Charles Starrett in the cast. see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034289/
I also have found a recording of a duet with Billy Hughes and Lee Wiley / Victor Young orchestra from NY in 1933 - a song titled "You're an old Smoothie". Billy would have been 25 years old at this time.
Does anyone know if either of these is the same Billy Hughes?
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Mitch Drumm
- Posts: 2664
- Joined: 4 Aug 1998 11:00 pm
- Location: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake
Deborah:
What is the Hughes connection to the film you mention with Cal Shrum? I don't see his name mentioned in the link you provide?
Virtually no chance the Lee Wiley connection is to Billy. She was a very highly regarded pop/jazz vocalist and much too uptown to likely be associated with Billy. And I don't know that he was active musically in 1933?
Regarding Rocky Ship--I haven't played the record in over a decade, but as I recall I suspected it was Billy due to the fake-sounding name and a very similar voice.
My memory of my conversations with Billy has faded, but I am reasonably sure I asked him and I think he said that Ship was NOT a pseudonym, but in fact another guy--possibly a Hughes band member?
What is the Hughes connection to the film you mention with Cal Shrum? I don't see his name mentioned in the link you provide?
Virtually no chance the Lee Wiley connection is to Billy. She was a very highly regarded pop/jazz vocalist and much too uptown to likely be associated with Billy. And I don't know that he was active musically in 1933?
Regarding Rocky Ship--I haven't played the record in over a decade, but as I recall I suspected it was Billy due to the fake-sounding name and a very similar voice.
My memory of my conversations with Billy has faded, but I am reasonably sure I asked him and I think he said that Ship was NOT a pseudonym, but in fact another guy--possibly a Hughes band member?
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Deborah Mundell
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- Location: Arizona, USA
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Mitch -
Thanks for the info & memories. Sorry about the link- you have to go to the full cast page - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034289/fullcredits
down near the bottom:
Original Music by
Billy Hughes
Cal Shrum
I would guess this is the same Billy, but not having seen the movie or heard the music, I don't know for sure. Sounds like the correct time-frame.
I was thinking that the Lee Wiley connection was a long shot - more likely that the Billy Hughes on this record is the Prime Minister of Australia Billy Hughes??
Thanks again.
Thanks for the info & memories. Sorry about the link- you have to go to the full cast page - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034289/fullcredits
down near the bottom:
Original Music by
Billy Hughes
Cal Shrum
I would guess this is the same Billy, but not having seen the movie or heard the music, I don't know for sure. Sounds like the correct time-frame.
I was thinking that the Lee Wiley connection was a long shot - more likely that the Billy Hughes on this record is the Prime Minister of Australia Billy Hughes??
Thanks again.