different kinda turnaround

Carter York · Post by **Carter York** » 23 Jan 2006 4:30 pm

I was playing along to a song that is in C, and the first change is your basic I - IV - I, then it "turns around" with C - Ab - C. The bridge of the song is a V - I type thing, staying in C.

"It sounds right, so I know it's right", but I started wondering about what was happening 'theoretically'...

Ab (Ab - C - Eb) is a 'flat-six' or 'sharp-five' of C?

Ab's relative minor is an F minor, but playing an F minor chord instead of the Ab didn't work.

So, is it simply a I - IVm - I change with a substitution? I'm just curious to hear how other people conceptualize things, and the connections people see (hear). FWIW, the song is a bluegrassy/country-ish kinda thing, and the C - Ab - C sounds great!

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 23 Jan 2006 8:08 pm

Well I agree. If it sounds right it is.
It is common in jazz/blues to play out of the flat 6. Also the flat 3. Both of these positions have many notes of the blues scale if you are using a 6th tuning at those positions. These are my favorite positions for single note blues/jazz.

1141 4416 2-5(16)(25)
Above is a fairly common 12 bar blues/jazz progression. One can play single notes from the flat 6 and the flat 3 "over" the above progression and have a lot of of fun.
The flat6 and the flat3 appear often in rock, country and jazz.

The flat6 shows up in Hawaiian steel songs also.
Try the 1 to flat6 slide and back to 1. pretty cool.

hope this helps

Ron[This message was edited by Ron Randall on 23 January 2006 at 08:49 PM.][This message was edited by Ron Randall on 23 January 2006 at 08:51 PM.]

Carter York · Post by **Carter York** » 24 Jan 2006 7:14 am

Ron,
Thanks for the reply. If my original post isn't clear, I meant to state I was playing along on an 'underarm' guitar, and was playing the chord changes, and trying to make sense of an Ab chord in the key of C.

That being said, I can remember the first time I played chords through a 1-6-2-5 and thought "how many times in how many places have I heard THAT!?"

I started setting up 'generic' changes in BIAB to play over, just dial up a key sig and a style and go to town. The 1-6-2-5 is one of my favorites!!

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 24 Jan 2006 7:44 am

Being able to set up the changes in BIAB, then finding them in several different spots on the fretboard, to see which one sounds neatest. Fun for a lifetime (or several).

Now, where did I put that white jacket with the wraparound sleeves...?[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 24 January 2006 at 07:46 AM.]

Bill Cutright · Post by **Bill Cutright** » 24 Jan 2006 9:20 am

What song is it?

The C to Ab is a little rare. To my limited knowledge, the best (country) example is the intro and ending to "Statue of a Fool". Instead of trying to relate this to the home key, I prefer to think of it as: the key center has changed, temporarily, and for that measure you're in the key of Ab.

Carter York · Post by **Carter York** » 24 Jan 2006 9:47 am

It's a song by Freakwater, called "Washed in the Blood" from their "Springtime" cd.

I can't post a file, but I've made a small (1.5mb) mp3 I can email.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 24 Jan 2006 10:37 am

"Bye Bye Blues." In key of "C,", is C-Ab in the first line---a real happy change!

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 24 Jan 2006 2:43 pm

Yeah, "bye bye blues".{though I use a 7th or 9th}.
Here's something I've been using for years.Strike a "C" chord {for pitch},then sing the "C" note and play an "Ab9th",barring across the 4th fret.you can leave it there {unresolved} or finish with a C6th or {my fav.}, a C6/9..This is the way I end "Crazy"..sounds kinda jazzy..
Messin with chords is real fun..PJ

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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body,but rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up,totally worn out,and loudly proclaiming:"WOW,what a ride!"

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 24 Jan 2006 3:12 pm

Trad jazz guys around here call it the Pineapple turnaround.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Jan 2006 6:19 pm

Pineapple turnaround? Could that be because that change is used in some famous Hawaiian songs, like "On The Beach At Waikiki"?[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 24 January 2006 at 06:20 PM.]

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 24 Jan 2006 11:42 pm

Ab6=Fm7

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 25 Jan 2006 7:44 am

Try playing it as a major 7th. AbM7 in C.

The top triad is C Eb G - a C minor chord. What is going on here?

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 25 Jan 2006 12:01 pm

Tuesday Afternoon, Moody Blues-Explaining all with a Sigh(C),(Ab) (C).
Doors, people are strange; When you're strange(B), faces come out of the rain(G)- same progression. Lots more! JP

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 25 Jan 2006 1:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
What is going on here?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

b0b, I'd say Fm9 is going on there.

-John

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 25 Jan 2006 4:48 pm

That makes a very nice ending for a ballad.

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Wish I'd learned lap steel when I still had a lap.

John Poston · Post by **John Poston** » 26 Jan 2006 12:25 pm

There's a great tune I found in a Dixieland fakebook with a lot of focus on the I to flat VI change called Ace in the Hole, different than the western swing one. Super fun tune in the key of G.[This message was edited by John Poston on 26 January 2006 at 12:33 PM.]

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 26 Jan 2006 4:49 pm

"Honey Don't"
From I to bVI for the verse, followed by 12 bar standard I-IV-I-V-IV-I.

Mike