'pretty woman' guitar riff

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 31 Aug 2005 3:09 pm

The guitar intro. (And it appears again elsewhere in the song).

Just curious. WHO came up with that part? And who actually played the part on the recording?

[I was looking for lyrics to a song by Roger Miller, and a bit about Jerry Kennedy at the top of the page I entered said that Jerry played it].

But a friend told me long ago that Wayne Moss came up with it.

Could anyone fill me in?
Thanks!
-cody

Post by **Joey Ace** » 31 Aug 2005 3:28 pm

Dwight Yoakam? He used it on "Fast As You".

Actually that was Pete Anderson.

The serious answer is I don't know. I always thought it was Roy Orbinson.

I hope someone knows. Interesting question.

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 31 Aug 2005 4:44 pm

Haha, Joey.

Surely someone will know, though. (or can find out?)

I would feel silly for posting the question if it turned out to be Orbison who played it. Perhaps he had the idea of the part and just hummed it to the guitarist.

That wouldn't surprise me, because I can't really imagine the song without it. Especially after the "wait! what do I see?". The riff just really fits.

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 31 Aug 2005 5:01 pm

Roy played it, but I don't if he did the original or not.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Johnny Baldwin · Post by **Johnny Baldwin** » 31 Aug 2005 5:24 pm

Cody:
I read awhile back a biography about Roy Orbison. The bio said that Roy had been playing that riff for quite some time trying to write a tune around it. The story goes that while Roy was sitting around picking with a band member his second wife Barbara made a trip to the grocery store. When she returned she asked Roy to help unload groceries, but Roy was caught up in jamming. When she stormed through the door on her second trip to retrieve the groceries, he started singing to her, "Pretty woman, don't walk on by, pretty woman don't make me cry...." and the rest is history. Roy Orbison's life was filled with personal tragedies. His first wife, Claudette (Frady), died in a 1966 motorcycle accident. (The Everly Brothers hit "Claudette" had been written about her, by Roy.) Two years later, the family home at Old Hickory Lake in Hendersonville, Tennessee burned to the ground while Roy was touring in England, and two of his three young sons, Anthony and Roy Jr., died in the fire. The youngest boy, Wesley, at the time only three, was saved by Roy's parents. These events affected him profoundly but after a few years he would continue to play to loyal audiences all across the globe. Tragedy would strike again, when, in 1973, Orbison's elder brother Grady Lee Orbison, died in a motor vehicle accident in Henderson, Tennessee when on his way to visit Roy for Thanksgiving.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 31 Aug 2005 5:31 pm

Hey, I always thought it was Van Halen.

The songwriter credits are Roy Orbison and Bill Dees. The riff is such an integral part of the song, that I find it fairly inconceivable that whoever came up with it wouldn't have shared songwriting credit, but you never know, I guess.

Seriously, it's such a simple, but brilliant line. The Beatles don't slavishly copy it, but it's all over the place - e.g., Day Tripper, Birthday.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 31 Aug 2005 5:40 pm

Might it have been Grady Martin?[This message was edited by Craig A Davidson on 31 August 2005 at 06:45 PM.]

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 31 Aug 2005 5:58 pm

That was the one song in my life, above all others that totally knocked my socks off. In college, I bought the 45 and my band learned it right away. You could hear and see the reaction of the crowd immediately. When I announced the song there was a murmer of anticipation among the crowd that I rarely heard in the next 30 years of playing.

Even now, I can get a chill when I hear it.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 31 Aug 2005 7:08 pm

The guitar part was played by Billy Sanford.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 31 Aug 2005 7:39 pm

Yeah it IS a cool tune. Fun to play, too (until overdone, as tunes can be).

I'm not a big Orbison fan or anything, and 'pretty woman' was all I knew of his for years. BUT, I really like 'Only the Lonely'. Impressive lead vocal, for sure. And I just like the song, Even though I've never been a fan of BG gibberish such as 'dum-dee-doo-wah' or 'doo-wah-ditty' or 'bah-wit-da-bah' ba 'ding-ba-dang-dong' and other such 'yip-yip, moo-moo', 'oom-papa-maow-maow' shoo-boppin' bubble-poppery.

Dave, you may be on to something about possible imitation riffs. When I read the joke that Joey made, I thought "yeah that IS pretty similar." Then I went and listened to it, and sensed its striking resemblence to 'pretty woman' right at the point where everything drops out except a high-hat pattern and the guitar riff.
(You may not be familiar, but the rhythm of it copies 'PW' and shares the same 4 or 5 notes.

As for the Beatles, that's a good insight. I always really dug the riff from 'day tripper'. 'Birthday', I actually had to go listen to, sadly enough. I know what you mean, as they share use of the broken Dom7 chord in ascending melody, but who knows if the beatles had Orbison in mind while they themselves riffed.

P.S. Dave, (this relates to completely different topic, but...) If your being from 'state college' means that you attend college (and fit the according age group) Then I am surprised by your idea of 'Alt-country'. The kids I know that attend college give that title to bands like 'Wilco' and 'Uncle Tupelo' (whoever THEY are, right?). The artists YOU named seem country, or country-rock. I am NOT saying that you're wrong, by any means. I just thought that 'alt-country' was a newer term.

[my apoplogies to those moderating. that belonged in another topic, but that other thread is long and scary!)

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 31 Aug 2005 7:42 pm

Oh! thanks herb. Didn't see your reply til now. guess it took me 30 min to write mine.

[edit: OH!! forgot to include this. Johnny, Thanks for the informative reply. It does make sense that the riff was written WITH the song.]

I don't know how I was intially so ill-informed. (???)[This message was edited by Cody Campbell on 31 August 2005 at 08:48 PM.]

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 1 Sep 2005 1:08 am

I believe the story about the wife and the groceries. You've got to make something up quick.
Didn't know he wrote 'Claudette.' Orbison was great.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 1 Sep 2005 3:08 am

A website on Grady says that he played on the tune, but maybe he just played the rhythm parts.

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 1 Sep 2005 3:19 am

My best friend is Merl Kilgore's son. Merle had an office right next to Jerry Kennedy in Nashville. While visiting Merle with my friend, he said "You want to meet Jerry Kennedy?" Of course, I jumped at the chance. My friend introduced Jerry as the man who came up with the Pretty Woman riff. Jerry did not deny it, so here we go. Will the real Pretty Woman riff writer, please stand up. (Might be a bit hard for Roy)

PS: The bottom 6 strings on my extended E-9 tuning plays the riff perfectly without touching any pedals[This message was edited by George Kimery on 01 September 2005 at 04:22 AM.]

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 1 Sep 2005 4:10 am

We have a mystery about the guitarist... years ago I saw Don Williams in concert, and he introduced Billy Sanford (playing lead guitar with DW at the time) as the picker who played the famous riff on "woman."

That's my source/story, but whether or not I'm sticking to it, I care not one whit.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Post by **Joey Ace** » 1 Sep 2005 4:44 am

A true story:

Once, back in the days of records, I needed a copy of "Pretty Woman" and the record store couldn't find it listed. THe clerk couldn't understand that, since we both knew the song was a classic. He eventually found listed under O.

The song's proper name is Oh Pretty Woman.

Jon Zimmerman · Post by **Jon Zimmerman** » 1 Sep 2005 6:54 am

Johnny B. and Herb--astute and well informed replies on tap. Great stuff..songs come from 'real life' situations, don't they? Love that PW provenance, and Roy really was a survivor, for sure. JZ

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 1 Sep 2005 8:26 am

For a nice instrumental version of that song get Jeff Newman's final CD. Jeff did a wonderful job on it....JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Sep 2005 1:09 pm

Billy Sanford's not a household name...but he should be! He was playing the same hot stuff you're hearing today over 40 years ago!

(And you guys thought players like Steve Wariner, Ray Flacke, Ricky Scaggs, and Brad Paisley invented all them "hot licks"!

)

Fantastic player! That all he'll probably be remembered for is that trite "Pretty Woman" lick is pretty sad. He did so much more! [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 01 September 2005 at 02:14 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 1 Sep 2005 1:49 pm

Cody - "State College" is the name of a town in central PA, where Penn State University is. I'm certainly not "student-age", I teach there.

Of course, Son Volt, Uncle Tupelo play alt-country (I would argue that Wilco did for a while, but no longer do). But the moniker is applied pretty widely. Around here, many consider Johnny Cash to be alt-country.

Hey, if Roy or Bill Dees didn't come up with that riff, whoever did should be on the song credit. It's the most memorable part of the song. So much for "copyright protection".

Randy Mason · Post by **Randy Mason** » 1 Sep 2005 2:14 pm

I call and check on my friend Buddy Harman regularly and i thought i would ask him since he played on it. He said Roy always brought his guitar to the studio, and that day he went up to the drums and said "what beat goes with this lick?" Buddy said "there's only one beat for that". He said Roy and producer Fred Foster came up with the lick and several played it together.
Roy, Billy Sanford, Charlie McCoy, and Boots Randolf, although you can barely hear him Buddy said. That's the way it was, and he should know. (by the way, Buddy fell and broke his hip in July and is recovering slowly.) Randy

Cody Campbell · Post by **Cody Campbell** » 1 Sep 2005 2:25 pm

thanks for the reply, dave. check your email.

Edit: Well, I guess Randy's response clears this all up.

(I wonder how Jon Z. knew that Herb was well-informed).

I guess it's such a great riff everyone wishes they played it, so they just claim credit.

[This message was edited by Cody Campbell on 01 September 2005 at 03:32 PM.]

Dave Brophy · Post by **Dave Brophy** » 4 Sep 2005 4:26 pm

You know how the intro lick starts as a 5-note phrase,repeats,and then turns into a full 8-to-the-bar type boogie woogie line?
According to a book I have called "Behind The Hits",Orbison and his co-writer had been working on the tune for awhile when Roy's wife came home.Roy told her "Hey,listen to this" and played the first half of the intro lick,forgetting the fingering of the second half.They liked the "false start" effect and kept it.
The key changes in that song are also pretty unique.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 4 Sep 2005 5:50 pm

Boots Randolph is on most of Orbisons' recordings. Seems that Roy thought of him as a "good luck charm" since Boots played on his early hits. You mostly won't hear Boots honking and squawking like he is know for on these records. Just having him in the studio playing is what Orbison wanted, no matter how much or how little.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 Sep 2005 8:41 pm

I also saw Billy Sanford with Don Williams. He was introduced as the guitar player on "Pretty Women". It either sounds like a 12 string guitar to me or at least a doubled overdub.