Turning down session work

Brett Anderson · From: Arizona, USA

Have any of you guys ever turned down a recording session because either the artist or the material sucked. Or have you played one anyway knowing the material and/or artist sucked but you really needed the money?

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

If I turned down sessions because the artist or the material sucked, I'd never work. Consequently I try to approach every session I take, like it was as important as the artist thinks it is. I also play each one to the best of my ability because that's how I like to do things and these things have a way of coming back to haunt you. That being said, the stuff I turn down is when the producer wants to get something for nothing.

Not everybody who wants a steel, knows what to do with it or how to mix it. I just played on a series of recordings and the mix makes me sound like I'm in the back room while the rhythm guitar is louder than me on my solos. I guess I won't be handing those out as "business cards"....

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

The only sessions I ever turned down, was because I felt I sucked.

In '84, a picker I knew asked me to play guitar and fiddle on a session, and I told him I was too out of practice at that time since I'd quit playing music about a year earlier and was now working a regular job. He looked at me like I was nuts and then offered a very good price for the session, which was the most I'd ever been offered, I told him I was too out of practice to be worth anywhere near that and would rather not do it at all. BTW, my wife and I were in serious financial problems at the time and I really needed the money, but I knew I wasn't in shape to do it.

Instead of thanking me for my honesty and saving him from spending too much money on a lousy track, he looked at me like I was insane and avoided me for years. He got over it eventually. I still think I did the right thing.

Come to think of it, I guess you could say I "turned down" one just recently, because the guy wanted it for free, and some people thought that it wasn't very nice of me, and some people thought it wasn't very nice of him.

Oh well.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 05 August 2005 at 11:44 PM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I can't recall ever "turning down" a session per se, but I remember one woman who decided she didn't want me to play on her session because I didn't seem to "really, really love" her music. And she only wanted people on the CD who "really, really love" her music. Well, excuuuuuse me! I'm a musician, not an actor!

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Do plumbers turn down work because they don't like how the bathroom is decorated ?

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Bob
My Website

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 05 August 2005 at 11:07 PM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Yes, I have turned down some session work. I don't have to play music, so if I don't care for the material, I simply suggest they use somebody else. I'd rather not play at all than play something I don't like.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 06 August 2005 at 06:10 AM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Donny's right, Bob. You need to distinguish between professional plumbers and those who "do a little plumbing on the side"...

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

So...not turning down any job is what makes you a "professional"?

Wow! Nobody told me it was that easy.

Barry Blackwood · Posted 6 Aug 2005 6:17 am

I've done a few sessions I'd WISHED I'd turned down. Talk about coming back to haunt you! Then again, I think I've 'improved' more than one bad session with just the right idea/lick at the right time. Go figure ......

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Paying the rent entirely off of whatever revenues your musical craft can generate may not be the only way to define "professional" but it certainly satisfies me as one strong definition. And I would imagine it tends to make you pretty broadminded about what kind of paying work you will accept.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I tried to turn down an electric guitar session in London in the '70s, but the booker persuaded me to say 'Yes'. When I got there things were as I feared they'd be - I was given the 'lead' guitar parts for an upcoming Duane Eddy album produced by Tony Macauley (this was to be a guide-track for Duane). I just knew my sight-reading wasn't up to it, but was mercifully rescued by the 'second' guitarist (a formidable reader) who swapped his rhythm parts with mine..... what a gentleman!

So - I survived. I'm glad I was there, though, because I was then booked to play for Duane on a TV Show in Germany later the same week. As anyone who knows him will confirm, he is a wonderful man and a terrific player. I got to play on that legendary old Gretsch 6120 of his, AND he gave me a solo on 'Shazam'!

RR

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I think exactly as Chas does on the subject.
He took the words right out of me mouth.
Ricky

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

At this stage in my musical journey I am a bit selective as to where and for what I drag all my recording stuff out to. The money is not the issue--if it is not decent, I don't go.

Now I find out what the project is, who else will be on the date, what kind of studio/engineer, what they want me to bring, who the producer is, what is expected of me etc. The recording scene around me has changed so much. Mostly done in small project studios by non engineer types, pro tools oriented, non recording savvy players, you know what I mean. The only up side is that most of these sessions don't really turn out to be so demanding and everybody usually likes what you do. I don't take everything like I use to.

Larry R · From: Navasota, Tx.

Good topic and great points.
What would PF do? I think we know the answer to that. That's why he's where he is today. The man can play any style even on his worst day (or does he have worst days?).
However, removing PF from the scenario, I can see everyones point of view on this topic.

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

I've turned down work that would have seriously compromised my moral convictions and I've also turned down some gospel work for the same reason. Aside from that, I haven't turned down anything unless I was convinced that I was not the right man for the job.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Now there is an interesting and entirely different angle to this discussion--the moral convictions thing. We all have them, it is deeply personal, and things can get tricky here. I basically don't listen to lyrics--I barely know they're there. There are songs I know intimately for 40 years and I still don't know the words. I was laying down a track recently and I started hearing some lyrics that got me wondering what the artist was going on about. In the end I couldn't quite figure whether he was being satirical, literal, bigoted, making fun of bigots---man, I didn't know what his deal was. Absolutely, I would say 'screw this' to something that offended me deeply. But grey areas? Well, I can't see dissecting it to try to figure out if it does offend me or not. Uneasy feelings? I can live with that.
No hard & fast answers.
Interesting subject.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

I have if they didn't want to pay enough or I just didn't think I was going to get payed. I've got a darn cheap minimum and if they don't want to pay that then the hell with it. There is one studio and engineer I just won't do anything else with period regardless of the money.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Morals.

I refuse to play the sessions here in Georgia that advertise the lottery. I got called for them over and over and finally the contractors got the message. Just something that I don't agree with. Your thoughts may be different.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

What would PF do?

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

I'd do the session, take the money, and go buy a lottery ticket...

Mark Metdker · From: North Central Texas, USA

The only ones I turn down are the freebies.

Uhhh.......sorry dude I'm busy that day"

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Strats thru a VHT Super 30

Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi

Webb Kline · From: Orangeville, PA

Jon, I know just what you mean. I never paid much attention to lyrics either. But, the way I see it, if I know what is going on, I will try to stay away from it.

Interestingly though, in this new duo project I am doing, we are sorting through a lot of old songs like from the Byrds, Jethro Tull, CSN&Y and offshoots, etc. Since we are both ministers, we are forced to be more discerning about our selections. We have been rather enlightened to discover that there are a lot, and I mean a lot of very good lyrics in many of those songs--many much better and meaningful than much of the crap that is being marketed as Christian today.

Didn't mean to get off topic, but it is an enlightening revelation for a couple of old preachers.

Back on topic, there are times when I will overlook the lyrical content of songs in a session because I feel that I should be there to offer moral support to those who are involved in the project. Indeed, when you start dissecting everything for the sake of morality, one's lack of compassion and tolerance can become the greater transgression.

Still, I ain't about to lay my bar on the strings to glorify ole slewfoot.

Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

Way to go, Webb.
Morality? Compassion? Hmmm... fertile ground for thought.

Chris LeDrew · From: Canada

I've done about 8 or 9 master sessions on steel. Every session was a great learning experience, notwithstanding the sometimes questionable material. Playing steel in the studio is way different than stage work. You have to be so precise, as a lot of you regular session guys know....

Having said that, I just got paid the other day for a session I did 2 MONTHS AGO. I had to chase the guy all over town. It ended up becoming a matter of principle in the end. I'll be more selective about sessions, and more up front about my payment policies, from now on.

Gerald Menke · From: Stormville NY, USA

I feel it's an honor and a privilege to be asked to contribute something to someone's album, demo, birthday present for their husband, whatever the final product ends up being. I take every opportunity that comes along to record, as if an hour onstage is worth 5 hours in the practice room, than an hour in the studio must be worth 20.

I am with Chas, I try to give every session 110 percent and treat it as if its the most important thing in the world, no matter if the person is paying well, or not.

I think I would only turn down a session if it was something totally outside the range of my abilities, i.e. jazz or swing session. I would politely refer them to someone I know who could do the job, but ask that they keep me in mind for anything else.

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