How did the steel guitar get into country music?

Colin Goss · Post by **Colin Goss** » 8 Jun 2005 10:15 am

A thing that has always puzzled me is how the Hawaiian guitar made the jump into country music? What were the steps that lead it to be such an important feature of "country"?

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 8 Jun 2005 10:53 am

A Hawaiian music troupe played The World Exposition in San Francisco, circa 1918 and were a smash hit. This led to the Hawaiian music craze that lasted for decades and influenced thousands to try their hand at this new way of playing a guitar on the lap, and of course it infiltrated the American style and country boys took the ball and ran with it.[This message was edited by Ron Whitfield on 08 June 2005 at 11:53 AM.]

Andy Greatrix · Post by **Andy Greatrix** » 8 Jun 2005 12:04 pm

Hank Snow always had a very Hawaiian sounding steel in his records and certainly in his band.[This message was edited by Andy Greatrix on 08 June 2005 at 01:05 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Jun 2005 1:28 pm

I always thought Cliff Carlisle playing dobro in Jimmie Rodger's band might have had something to do with it.

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Bob
intonation help

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 08 June 2005 at 02:28 PM.]

Orville Johnson · Post by **Orville Johnson** » 8 Jun 2005 3:03 pm

Cliff Carlisle as well as Ellsworth Cozzins (Mike Auldridge's uncle who also played Hawaiian guitar with Rodgers and wrote "Treasures Untold") were factors. Jimmie also cut several tunes with Lani McIntyre's Royal Hawaiians (I forget the name of their steel player). Hawaiian music was huge in the twenties and Rodgers not only incorporated that into his music but cut some sides with Louis Armstrong's group. Seems like the "father of country music" didn't mind a little crosspollination.

Pete "Oswald" Kirby also added a lot of Hawaiian sounds to Roy Acuff's music another very popular country musician of the 30s.

The electric pedal steel was, of course, invented for country music in the 1950s, a technological progression from the non-pedal version.

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 8 Jun 2005 3:04 pm

Wasn't it Bob Dunn with The Lighcrust Doughboys around 1935? (The earliest Bob Wills band)

Cliff Carlisle played the dobro as Dr. Hoffner stated, but Dunn actually played an electric steel guitar I believe. That would be 10-15 years before Hank Snow I suspect.

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"Gimme a steel guitar, 2 or 3 fiddles and a Texas rhythm section that can swing"..R. Pennington

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 8 Jun 2005 3:50 pm

Orville, there is debate that in fact the pedal steel was invented early in Hawaii also, altho to know for sure will probably never be known.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 8 Jun 2005 6:34 pm

It seems likely that after the Pan Pacific Expo that Hawaiian musical troups probably went on the vaudville circuit thus exposing the steel guitar to rural America - that and radio. People simply liked the sound and just as several other cultures have been known to do,it was assimilated and integrated into our folk music.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 8 Jun 2005 10:10 pm

Sitting here reading this and thinking about dobro/lap/slide styles, I gotta say that it seems that pedal steel is only superficially related to those others. Yea I know, the progression was obviously from the one to the other but what we have NOW is only related to the dobro/lap/slide in the use of the steel to fret the strings.

I've been playing dobro now for a couple years (always goofed w/it a little b4) and do an occasional slide thing on tele but to me they're two distinct instruments. Not just mechanically but fundamentally.

We don't say that violins and guitars are close relatives except for two strings (at least I don't); nor piano and drums (both technically percussion instruments). By the same token, I have this intuitive feeling that pedal steel is a unique invention, the genesis of which is light years removed from the practical reality of the today's instrument and the way it's played.

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 9 Jun 2005 11:26 am

I believe I saw something on the subject that claimed pedal steel was invented in the 30's (or late 20s?) in Alabama, as an Adaptation of the prior Hawaiian lap steel. -But I can't quote it.
Doubtless people both on the islands and the mainland both contribued to its evolution.

Alan Shank · Post by **Alan Shank** » 9 Jun 2005 11:30 am

Aren't you guys forgetting that it's really a harp?

Cheers,
Alan Shank

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 9 Jun 2005 11:59 am

The pedal steel goes waaaaaaaaaaay back.
"Give praises to the Lord on an INSTRUMENT OF 10 STRINGS" (Psalm 33:2)

Charlie C Harrison · Post by **Charlie C Harrison** » 9 Jun 2005 12:21 pm

I thought Bud Issac brought steel to country with Slowly !

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Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 9 Jun 2005 12:44 pm

Come on now Charlie, you know that's merely 'pedal' steel.

Re-read the topic header.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jun 2005 12:45 pm

I think Orville has the right answers, all of them. I'm not sure what Marty is trying to say. Acoustic lap steel, electric lap steel and pedal steel are all closely related members of the steel guitar family. They are much more closely related that violin and guitar. They are more like the keyboard family of harpsicord, clavicord, piano and organ. Violinists and guitarists can't necessarily play each others instruments. The various keyboard mechanics lend themselves to different styles, but the instruments are played fundamentally the same way and the theory and technique is the same. The same is true for the steel guitar family.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 9 Jun 2005 3:09 pm

Violinists and guitarists can't necessarily play each others instruments. ...keyboard...instruments are played fundamentally the same way... The same is true for the steel guitar family.

I disagree; I came straight to pedal steel w/no experience w/dobro/lap/slide styles.

Guess what?
Today I know what a bar slant IS but that's about it.
It's the pedals and lever that make the pedal steel its own instrument and remove it so far from its ancestry.
In other words, the playing techniques share in common only the use of the slide and not even too much of that.

Orville Johnson · Post by **Orville Johnson** » 9 Jun 2005 5:54 pm

how any of us came to play the steel (acoustic or electric) wasn't the question. it was how the the steel came to be a part of country music.

as far as technique goes, you put some picks on your right hand and pluck the strings and you hold a steel bar in your left and slide it along the strings. on some instruments you use your feet and on some you don't. they are closely related, tho not exactly the same, and the people who made the technological changes were aquainted with the previous acoustic and electric non-pedal instruments.

many of the playing techniques are held in common and i'm sure if you wanted to play dobro, your experience with pedal steel would help you learn faster than someone without that experience.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 9 Jun 2005 8:17 pm

I'm not sure what Marty is trying to say.

Well THERE'S a newsflash!

There you go Orville, clarifying the topic.

Is it true that all string instruments are really the same thing?
Is steel really just a glorified b@nj0?

And I suppose that at root they ain't no different than so much bobwar strung betwixt two bois d'arc posts, eh fellers?

Now we take you back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 9 Jun 2005 10:26 pm

I can't say how or when the steel guitar "got into" country music but I do know that my great-grandfather Roy Henson had converted his 1897 Washburn into a steel guitar and was playing it at barn dances and the like when he was a USFS forest ranger at Zigzag in Oregon's Mt. Hood country. This was between 1906 and 1921, so it's quite possible that the conversion followed in the wake of the 1918 SF Exposition that Ron Whitfield mentions above.

The conversion included labels for each fret with the name of every note at every fret factory-printed on it. When I inherited it it had a pair of 1/2" brass cylinder bars, a Stevens bar, and a couple of thin, flat, chromed steel bars of different types still in the case.

Now if that ain't country I don't know what is.

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<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 09 June 2005 at 11:38 PM.]

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 10 Jun 2005 10:22 am

I agree with Marty.

Case in point.... If you do a search on Jerry Douglas, I believe you will find a note by him where he explained that he gave up on pedal steel because the right hand technique is very different from dobro. He said that learning steel technique was hurting his dobro chops.

Another example.... Just because someone is an excellent guitarist doesn't mean he can play a mandolin proficiently. (Assuming there is such a thing as good mandolin playing

)

Just my $.02 worth.

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"Gimme a steel guitar, 2 or 3 fiddles and a Texas rhythm section that can swing"..R. Pennington

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 10 Jun 2005 10:49 am

Thanks, Bill, I was just about to add that Jerry told me the same thing a couple of years ago, that he quit playing pedal steel because it was interfering with his dobro technique.

On a historical note, Steel Guitarist Magazine Issues 2 - 5 (1979-80, still available from this forum, I believe) has a series of excellent articles on the history of western swing and the lap steel guitar.

According to this source, the Hawaiian guitar originally came into popular use at King Kalakua's Jubilee Celebration in November of 1886. James Hoa, Gabriel Davion and Joseph Kekuku were all playing slide guitar before that time, although who was the first to do so is a matter of debate.

It was widely featured in American vaudeville shows as early as 1898, when the US took possession of Hawaii and all things Hawaiian became the rage.

The first "country" recording of the "Hawaiian" guitar is credited to Frank Hutchinson in April of 1927, by which time it was in widespread use in rural areas throughout the US.

For more information, buy the magazine set from b0b, you can help support his great work and learn cool stuff at the same time.

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<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 10 Jun 2005 11:18 am

Jerry Douglas...gave up on pedal steel because the right hand technique...

Big BABY!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Jun 2005 12:43 pm

I'm still not sure what point Marty is making and others are agreeing with. Although acoustic, lap and pedal steel are different, they are more like each other than like any other instrument. They are a very close family. They all use some of the same tunings (the 8-string tuning at the core of both pedal steel necks is identical to 8-string acoustic and lap tunings), slide technique is very similar, and the finger picking is very similar. I cannot think of a single acoustic or lap technique that is not used by some pedal steel players (except maybe finger control of the volume knob). Many, if not most, players have and play all three instruments. Lap steel is merely a solid-body electric version of acoustic steel guitars. And pedal steel is merely a lap steel with pedals and levers added. The main differences are: 1) acoustic doesn't use a volume pedal (oops, I forgot about the pedabro), whereas some lap players and most pedal steel players do, and 2) the touch for electric lap and pedal steel is necessarily different from acoustic (Jerry Douglas' problem). However, the touch for electric guitar is different from acoustic, and some electric guitarists use volume and other pedals. So are acoustic and electric guitars entirely different instruments? What about acoustic electrics? If your answer is yes, then I guess there is no point in argueing.

Yes, acoustic and electric require different touch, and the pedals and levers add a different dimension to pedal steel. But acoustic, lap and pedal steel are all just different versions of the same instrument, the steel guitar. What's the point of denying this simple and inconseqeuntial truth? We're all here together on The STEEL GUITAR Forum. I would think that fact alone would pretty much close the case.

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 10 Jun 2005 2:04 pm

Except that to me, No Peddlars might as well not exist; I NEVER go there; it might be peopled by Martians for all I know (can I say that? No offense to Martians, steel players; pedal or otherwise, or those who hate and would disrupt our freedoms)!

I'm talking about the PLAYING TECHNIQUE!
I think it's night and day, David.
Just because I use fingerpicks on b@nj0 doesn't make it a dobro; just because I use a slide on dobro doesn't make it a pedal steel.

Now, I'm not trying to be obtuse here; I'm just saying that while the evolution is obvious, today's PSG and the way it's played, is NOTHING like 'slide' instruments.
It's a different process/mindset/skillset.

Shoot, orville, get me back on topic woodja?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Jun 2005 3:02 pm

I use the same right and left hand techniques whether I'm playing with pedals or without. The only difference is what I add with my left foot and knees when I play the pedal steel.

Almost all of the steel guitar parts from the classic country recordings of the 1940's and early 1950's can be played verbatim on a modern pedal steel. It's the same instrument; it's just been enhanced by the march of technology.

I think that the best genesis stated in the discussion above was Bob Hoffnar's statement:

I always thought Cliff Carlisle playing dobro in Jimmie Rodger's band might have had something to do with it.

Jimmie Rodgers is widely acknowledged as "The Father of Country Music". It was before my time of course, but it's hard to find any earlier popular music that can be called "country". The steel guitar is the dominant lead instrument in many of Rodger's recordings. I imagine that people learning the Hawaiian guitar first heard the mainland voice of the instrument on those records.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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