US right attacks SpongeBob video, BBC

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 21 Jan 2005 10:22 pm

Anyone who works in the entertainment business or the art world inevitably works with members of the gay community.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Jan 2005 1:37 am

About 20 years back my jazz band did a New Years Eve gay drag ball.
A 30 year running poker game, would bank the last pot at midnight and then throw a party for all friends at the end of the year.

Must have been some serious pots, because they rented the John Quincey Adams Suite at the John Hancock building.

A 7 hour gig, for 1600 people of ALL descriptions.
Men dressed like Liza and Marlene D, and women dressed like Elvis and Sinatra.
Oh, and many dressed perfectly normal, and dancing with oposite genders too.

We did 11, 15 minute sets, with the DJ, who hired us spinning most of the night.
Two songs, take a break basicaly.

And spent hours in the biggest dressing room I have ever seen.
4 showers, private telephone booth, 186 light bulbs for the mirrors alone, seating for 24... in the dressing room.

We were treated wonderfully, fed like kings, saw some incredible swing dancing when we played, and got paid beyond averice.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 January 2005 at 01:40 AM.]

Derek Duplessie · Post by **Derek Duplessie** » 22 Jan 2005 10:05 am

I'm ashamed that men like james dobson are the figures that represent christians. Give me a break.

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 22 Jan 2005 11:01 am

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good distortion by the old liberal media.
http://family.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/family.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=17669

It is not the purpose of the school to teach moral values to children. The the anti-God forces do not want religion mentioned at a public school(among other places). They have successfully got prayer in school removed.

If that is the way they want it, then they should not teach ANYONE's "moral" values. Considering that, in this particular case, they want to discuss sexual issues with 6 and 7 year olds, anyone with a brain realizes that is very inappropriate.

Teaching religion and moral values should be left to the parents. Just as we should teach our children that it is wrong to lie, steal, cheat, Christians have the obligation to teach other behaviorial issues that are consistent with scripture.

Dr. Dobson is simply exercising his free-speech right to warn parents of what is planned for our children in the public schools.

Considering the context, it is pretty clear to a sane and intelligent person where the REAL outrage should be directed.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Jan 2005 12:58 pm

I only have a vague memoery of the "liberal media" it died a long time ago.

I see two things here.

1 a group promoting tolerance for all people.

2 a juxtapositioning of morality and religion as only being the same if people are of the same faith

The pro tolerance group has two words "sexual identity", as part of a MUCH greater concept, TOLERNCE FOR ALL.

But these two words, which could as easily mean you are attracted to short, fat, bald women or Julian Roberts,
JUST as easily as it could mean a same gender attraction, seem to make some people apoplectic with fear and threatened.

It could also mean celebicy to the point of a choice to NOT have a sexual identity. I do not see this promoting anything but tolerance for ALL.

The VAST majority liberals that I have met ,in general, do NOT want to end religion.
Only a very tiny LOUD minority, who are mostly ignored by the mainstream.

But most left of center people do agree that no one should be forced to have to be indoctrinated into another religious philosophy in the public schools.

They ALSO were clearly FOR a teaching of morality in the schools,
as well as in the homes as the parents see fit.
It is a equal conservative distortion from some circles saying this is not the case.

As long as this morale teaching was not directly tied to any one religion specifically. Even better is a comparative method where ALL religions differences in morality are compared for similarities as well as differences.
But NOT advocating one over another.

Too much for most 7 year olds of course in it's deeper meanings,
but useful in understanding others in it's more basic concepts. And laying a basis for future understanding.

And there IS a morale lesson can be learned about tolerance :
Of allowing the differnces between people.

Not advocating being radically different, just not persecuting those who are.

Not pushing people to be different, but just not promoting crualty towards those who are different.

Is it immoral to, dislke what someone does,
but not also make their life a misery because you disapprove?

Is it not morally proper to teach children not to call people hurtful names, or give beatings, because someone is different in some fundamental way?

So I can not agree, that if my particular religion is not taught in schools,
that then no proper morality should be taught there in consequence. Or that if there is moral teachings it is incorect,
because my faith's tenents aren't surrounding it. during the dialog

That makes no sense on a practical level.
To be against tolerance in general, is to be FOR intolerance on some level...

So to say : be tolerant of :
the fat, the intelectually imparied, the black, the oriental, the persians, the short, the sexually different, women, hispanics, foreigners, non wasps, non baptists, non YOU ;

can not be considered as teaching sex education to children except in a myopic word parsing way,

It is saying, don't BE MEAN to people unlike yourself.
Nothing more nothing less.

So let them distibute the video, and let the principals, teachers, and local parents watch the video and discuss the mesaage. Then THEY can decide for themselves if this is appropriate for their locality.

Not some national pre-emptive strike.
I certainly won't say that what would not fly in Dr Dobson's town,
wouldn't fly in my suburban home town.

If your faith is stricter than the morals taught in your school system,
then YOU can teach your faiths increased morality in addition to the schools at home, as you see fit.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 January 2005 at 01:21 PM.]

Derek Duplessie · Post by **Derek Duplessie** » 22 Jan 2005 1:26 pm

It is absolute paranoia. These are people who could care less about the death penalty, the environment, civil rights, helping the poor, etc. Abortion and gay marriage seem to be their only concerns in a world filled with hate and greed. I sometimes wonder if some of the people at my church wouldn't have voted for hitler if he was pro-life. I've seen this video. It is in no way endorsing homosexuality. It's like saying the passion of the christ is promoting anti-semitism (which it's not!)

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 22 Jan 2005 1:45 pm

Immanuel Kant dealt with this subject in 1781 in "The Critique of Pure Reason." In a nutshell, he felt that morality could and should be built from reason and logic. I thought he tidied up the whole subject pretty well, but the original is pretty weighty reading. There are several "Kantians" who have distilled his points, most notably Arthur Schopenhauer. Even a basic outline of Western philosophy text will cover the work that's been done to this point. The problems as I see it are not that bedrock truth can't be reached, but that most people prefer not to think that hard, and truth often contradicts their urges, wants, and perversions. And hence, is best left unexplored.
http://www.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Philosophy/Kant/cpr/

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Jan 2005 3:11 pm

Kant and Schopenhauer...
didn't they write the Rhapsody in Em for harpsichord, 2 violins and Oboe in Pajama Game?

Per chance we get back to music here abouts before the axe falls.

Kant do 'd it :

In accordance with reason's legislative prescriptions,
our diverse modes of knowledge
must not be permitted to be amere rhapsody,
but must form a system.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 22 January 2005 at 03:16 PM.]

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 22 Jan 2005 3:16 pm

Ok, who knows the lyrics to "Am I Blue"?[This message was edited by HowardR on 22 January 2005 at 03:16 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Jan 2005 3:17 pm

Blueman Group....

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 22 Jan 2005 7:41 pm

DLD.

I happen to be one of the Foraging Workers in the picture you posted.

It was NOT what it looked like..

Oh well....

EJL

Bob Markison · Post by **Bob Markison** » 22 Jan 2005 11:51 pm

I suspect there will be further grist for the pop culturists' mills when they begin reading science books to supplement their viewing of aquatic cartoons. The definitive work covering non-human "odd pairing" on land and in the air (mammals and birds) is this one:
Bruce Bagemihl, PhD: "Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity", cataloging more than 300 species, 1250 ppp., 1999, St. Martin's Press,NY. Kind of an eye opener. I suspect the steel guitar relevance of this thread would be the broader implications of idiosycratic tunings.

Bob Markison · Post by **Bob Markison** » 22 Jan 2005 11:53 pm

oops - idiosyncratic

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 23 Jan 2005 12:45 am

Then I suppose there's the "Angry Beavers"

Muscular Beavers.

Beach Beavers.

Omega Beaver.

Sans-a-Pelt.

And then further I seem to remember,

Bananas in Pajamas..

Oi..

What's it all coming to.

I do like Cat Dog. But then I liked Mr Rogers.

So shoot me.

EJL

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 23 Jan 2005 1:14 am

Sans-a-Pelt

Crowbear, Is that like a praire barbue rasiait?

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 23 Jan 2005 8:29 am

So,...we go from Sponge Bob to sponge bath?

Post by **b0b** » 23 Jan 2005 10:19 am

This thread is "off topic" and likely to burst into flames. I'm locking it down. I suggest that people who want to debate this issue can find other places on the Internet to do it.

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