Difference between fiddle and violin?

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 5 Jan 2005 5:30 am

Hi all - dumb question time!

Is there a difference in instrument setup for "fiddle" players vs. "violin" players?

I'm asking because we're thinking about having my 3 year old Daughter start violin lessons (if she wants) with the Suzuki method, and they recommend having a parent learn at the same time. Now, I could care less about traditional classical violin, but I could happily put some effort into Western fiddle playing once I've got the basics down.

Any hints or tips? If it's any use, I'm a pretty fair guitar and bass player, know some theory and can get away with basic Western Swing steel. Stringed instruments don't scare me off!

Ian

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 5 Jan 2005 6:30 am

Speaking from teaching experience, as a general rule, 3 is much too young to start "formal" lessons. Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, but I wouldn't mess with spending money on formal lessons until the kid was 6.

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 5 Jan 2005 6:44 am

"What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?
A fiddle is fun to listen to."

Go here for more:

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/jokes/#violin

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 5 Jan 2005 7:15 am

I always heard the difference was that you carry a violin in a case and a fiddle in a gunny sack!!!

Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Jan 2005 7:57 am

My son started on Suzuki violin; I think he was age 5, which was just fine. Some kids started even earlier. I'm sure Chris's general comment about age 3 being too young is true for most forms of formal education, but in Suzuki-land, it's really quite common and effective. Of course, they are learning by ear and by copying the instructor for the first 2 years, not trying to read music. They turn everything into a game and get amazing results, which I've personally witnessed.

My son has now moved on to alto sax as his preferred instrument of world torture but the experience he gained on Suzuki violin was immeasurable. One of the most important things it will do for the student is hone their ear, teaching good intonation. There are (like steel, of course) no frets and you have to work in a very small space to be in tune. Consequently, I would encourage you very much to go along for the lessons. You won't be learning "classical music" or "irish fiddling" or "bluegrass" or whatever. You'll be learning basic competence on the instrument so that you can later have the technique to play whatever music you choose. AND you'll be encouraging your daughter tremendously by being personally invested in the same thing that she is. Be sure to make practice time FUN and GAMES: that is the key to success, especially at such a young age. Good luck! [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 05 January 2005 at 07:58 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 5 Jan 2005 8:13 am

I think the difference between fiddle and violin is the way the instrument is played.
Erv

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 5 Jan 2005 8:24 am

Erv, that's exactly what the young lady I sat beside (on a flight from Chicago to Los Angeles) told me when I asked the same question years ago. She played first chair violin for the LA Philharmonic. [This message was edited by Ray Minich on 05 January 2005 at 08:24 AM.]

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 5 Jan 2005 9:02 am

There are some setup differnces, but they don't really matter for a beginner. Most but not all fiddlers use steel strings, while violinists usually use a composite gut substitute string. Often, fiddlers have a little bit flatter bridge arch than violinists.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jan 2005 9:02 am

is'nt Violin played under the chin and fiddle up against the rib cage or breast ?
well that's what i believe anyway....

i never seen either in a dumpster

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 05 January 2005 at 09:03 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 5 Jan 2005 9:38 am

A violin has strings.

A fiddle has STRANGS.

No other difference.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Jan 2005 10:02 am

There are some fiddle tunings that are non standard, like for certain "old timey" music, but in general they are tuned exactly the same, and also like the mandolin.
Or like an upside down guitar.

There are some that play in a fiddle style off the shoulder,
but more that play fiddle music under the chin.

By far the best fiddlers I know play with a correct classic style, whather jazz of trad.

Actually as a mandolin player I would welcome the chance to work with a tyke in the Suzuki system. It would give me the excuse to add decent violin technique onto my existing mandolin and contrabass chops. I bow now, and I play fretless, but it's all at different angles.

But doing it with the little kid, would mean I kept hacking at it,
by the time they get good enough to go off on their own I would be acurate enough to gig a bit with fiddle.

I was helping Ursulal O'Keefe with her fiddle playing in Drogheda,
and AMOK says it was good for her and that she is now playing out with older trad music players, and they are praising her progress..
good for her![This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 January 2005 at 10:03 AM.]

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 5 Jan 2005 11:44 am

Seen on a bumper sticker:
"A violin,is a fiddle that's busted!"

(or,it could be the other way around)

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Miguel e Smith · Post by **Miguel e Smith** » 5 Jan 2005 12:31 pm

In the mid to late 70's I did a TV show with the Gatlin Brothers. Another guest on the show was classical great Itzhak Perlman. When we met Mr. Perlman, Larry (Gatlin) asked him this same question. Mr. Perlman's response..."No difference."

I guess it's all in the perspective.

Miguel

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 5 Jan 2005 12:52 pm

A violin has strings.
A fiddle has STRANGS.

No other difference..one difference, a violin you dont play on a roof..A Fiddle you do.

LMAO

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 05 January 2005 at 12:54 PM.]

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 5 Jan 2005 1:01 pm

Technically speaking, a violin is a fiddle. Any bowed stringed instrument can be called a fiddle.

Mark Butcher · Post by **Mark Butcher** » 5 Jan 2005 1:34 pm

To be boring....... A fiddle is usually played using open strings and mainly in first position. A violin is mainly played in closed positions. The former is a lot easier!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 5 Jan 2005 2:50 pm

Speaking of Mr. Perlman, I heard him refer to his Stradivarius as a "fiddle."
I like the one about not playing a "violin" on a roof! Took mw a while to get it, though...

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 Jan 2005 2:59 pm

Good one Jody!

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 5 Jan 2005 3:00 pm

My daughter learned Suzuki method from a Suzuki master. She was about 5 when she started. She is now 27 and plays rock guitar. She blows my mind how easily she hears what he is learning. The Suzuki method is an amazing way to develop the ear. Do it. It doesn't matter what material she learns. It will be the best the kid can get......

[This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 05 January 2005 at 03:01 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 5 Jan 2005 3:07 pm

Stephen, I think I saw that one Off-Off-Broadway. It was the WASP version: "Violinist on the Roof"

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 5 Jan 2005 3:43 pm

Ian,
What Jim said in his first post !

cya soon, Bob

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 5 Jan 2005 4:05 pm

Thanks everyone for your encouragement! My little girl (Hannah) has quite a nice singing voice (for a 3 year old) and can hold a tune pretty well as long as she is in her range, so I'm pretty confident she has a reasonable ear. I'll chat to my Wife later and see if she likes the idea. Any excuse to buy more music stuff!

As an aside, you might be amused to know that both my kids' favourite lullaby is "Don't fence me in"! Hannah does a fair job singing along too.

Now - one more question, if you'll bear with me... What should I look for in a fiddle (apart from the obvious!)? How can I tell a good student instrument from a rubbish one? How about bows? Is Ebay a good/bad place to look?

Cheers,

Ian

Don Walters · Post by **Don Walters** » 5 Jan 2005 4:11 pm

This may illustrate:

Click here

Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 5 Jan 2005 5:14 pm

"You say potato, I say tater."
Alison Krauss

Steve Bailey

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 5 Jan 2005 9:16 pm

Red Hayes took a viola and and put a 5th tuning peg on it for Johnny Gimble and Johnny tuned it as a 5 string fiddle. I think they calles it a viddle. jody.[This message was edited by Jody Sanders on 06 January 2005 at 09:20 PM.]