Nat. 7 string, needs work, vs. 6 string

John Bushouse · Posted 6 Dec 2003 10:22 am

Hello all,

I'm shopping for my first lap steel (thanks, Bill Leff and Steinar Gregertson for your help so far!). I've come across two Nationals that I think are pretty cool: one that I think is an Electric Hawaiian 7 string (based on some other posts on this forum), with the "Master Control; Natural Hawaiian; Full Treble; Full Bass" controls and a 6 string New Yorker with the "Hawaiian Chimes Harp" control. Both are listed (by two different dealers) at the same price.

Both guitars have the screw on connector for the jack connections, so I know I'd need to replace that. The 7 string has very scratchy pots. I can't tell what the Full Treble and Full Bass controls do - they apparently drop out the response of the outside two strings (trebble side and bass side). This seems very odd, but very cool if it was designed into the guitar (vs. being a malfunction of the electronics). The third string, which is unwound, is also louder than the first two.

So, my questions are:

What's the best case/worst case scenario on how much work the 7 string would need on its electronics?

What's a rough estimate on cost for the above?

Am I better off getting the New Yorker, which is in better shape?

Thanks in advance...

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Hard to say much w/out seeing the guitar but you should be able to replace the pots and jack for $25 or so - that's easy. The greater question is do you want the extra chordal possibilities afforded by 7 strings as opposed to 6. I'd go with the 7 string if it's in good cosmetic condition,has good tuners,the pickup works,a decent case - things like that. Pots,jacks and of course strings are changed out routinely these days.
-MJ-

John Bushouse · Posted 6 Dec 2003 1:09 pm

I forgot - the tuners on the 7 string appear to be replacements, and should be replaced. They're cheap chrome plated single tuners (not 3 or 4 to a plate) with the plating coming off - the plating is bad because someone took what appears to be vise-grips to them at some point.

The tuners rattled, too, when I played the guitar. It doesn't show up through the amp, though.

The case is original, I believe. Tweed with a nice fluffy green interior. The guitar comes with a cord - if not original, it's pretty old - pretty thin and cloth-braided. It also comes with two old finger picks and an old plastic thumbpick.

The guitar has been in the shop for 10 years or more, so the strings and picks, etc. are at least that old.

John Bushouse · Posted 6 Dec 2003 1:11 pm

Also, the pickup works, but the volume on the third (unwound) string appears higher than the other strings - or it could be a function of those strange "full" knobs.

Does anyone know what those controls are supposed to do?

Steinar Gregertsen · From: Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.

Hi again John,-
I don't know much about National lap steels, other than that I would have bought a New Yorker without hesitating if it was in good shape (and I had the money....).
But I think I can explain why the third string sounds louder,- unwound strings have a stronger output than wound strings, and most old pickups are made and adjusted for a wound third string. So an unwound string will most likely 'stand out' from the rest because of this, changing the strings will probably correct this. Of course, not having heard how bad the difference is, I can't guarantee this, but it's my uneducated guess....

I'm sure there are others here with experience on the National lap steels who can offer you more assistance.

Steinar

------------------
www.gregertsen.com

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Again, all these things can be changed out tuners,pickups whatever - if the guitar appeals to you conceptually. -MJ-

Russ Young · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

John, there were actually two different types of National Electric Hawaiians," both introduced in 1935: a round cast-aluminum guitar (follow the "aluminum lap steels" link at [url=http://www.notecannons.com)]www.notecannons.com)[/url] and a wood stairstep-shaped guitar that was renamed the "New Yorker" in 1939.

From your description, it sounds as if the seven-string may actually be a 1935 or 1936 wooden "Electric Hawaiian," which came with seven or eight strings and had the "Full Treble" and "Full Bass" knobs.

Aside from the needed repairs, there are a couple of reasons why you may want to get the six-string "New Yorker" -- if you already play guitar, you may find yourself more "at home" with six strings, and you'll find much more lap steel tab and instructional materials for six-string.

Have fun either way --

Loni Specter · From: West Hills, CA, USA

The diff in string volume could be the result of the seller replacing only the missing strings with misc. lose strings, when he preped the guitar for sale. different strings from different manufacturers may have a higher or lower iron content, causing lowder or softer response. Change all the strings and you will know.
Good luck.

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

You didn't say what kind of music you want to play. This could be an important factor. I love my Gibson Grande Console Double 7 for swing. Not to say that one can't play great swing on a 6-stringer! Scratchy pots are certainly no big deal. A little cleaner spray may fix them up. Tuners may be a little more difficult, but I'm sure some one here can steer you in the right direction.
JB

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

I don't really have an opinion on which guitar is better, but 6 vs 7 strings....

I like the 7 string for these reasons:

Even if you play guitar, playing a 6 string standard (Spanish) guitar is not like playing a lap steel. So whether it has 6 or 7 strings, it would have more to do with the way you tune it, than having an extra string.

If you are used to 6 string lap steel, it doesn't take a lot of time to get used to 7 strings.

You can take any 6 string tuning that you are used to and add an out of order 7th string to give you a 6th, 7th, or 9th voicing. It's there when you want it, and when you don't, you still have your 6 string tuning. You can have a root note on the 1st string with a G or A major tuning. You can still use any instruction that is available for 6 string.

If none of this works for you, take the dern 7th string off and you still have your 6 strings.

No rimshot for this one, eh Russ?

Russ Young · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

Of course I would award you one, Howard ... but "take the dern 7th string of" isn't up to your usual comedic standards. (Your comments about the advantages of seven strings are good, though. As someone who is self-taught on a six string, I didn't realize how simple adding the seventh could be.)

All things considered, I'l give you an abbreviated rmsht!

Bill Creller · From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)

Russ; Aniique Electronics at www.tubesand more has a deox spray for cleaning pots that works great. I think the different volume level cuold have something to do with different brands of strings, like someone just mentioned, as I have found that to be true. If you go with the National, there are sources for the Amphenol connector for making up and extra cord if you need one. I have a New Yorker that I bought new in 1949, and it's a great steel, but I like 7 and 8 strings these days and the National doesn't get played.
Howard is right,the transition from six to seven is quite easy, and you will never go back except for wanting to play a certain guitar etc.
Regards Bill

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