Would Todays Country Hits Have Made It Back Then

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 8 Mar 2004 10:33 am

Along the same lines as the Patsy Cline thread: Would a current popular country song be a hit in...say, 1957 or 1967 or even 1977? (I just like years with a 7 in them)

Some would I believe but many would not due to their frame of reference or lyrical context. Some would make it because they are so cleaverly written as to defy time frame. A couple of Randy Travis songs come to mind.

It's a fun excercise in 'what if' thinking. Let's see what y'all come up with.

I'll start...Three Wooden Crosses...maybe not in the 50s but it has that folky story song thing that they liked in the 60s, the catchy hook that was so essential in the 70s
and it's not much different now than in the 80s. I'd say...HIT pretty much across the board.

Next.

BDBassett
Rimrock AZ[This message was edited by BDBassett on 08 March 2004 at 04:54 PM.]

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 8 Mar 2004 11:21 am

I feel that a lot of todays "Country" songs sound like the lame rock stuff that they were cranking out in the late 60's and 70's. So, unfortunately, yes. They would have been hits in my opinion.

Robbie Bossert

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Mar 2004 12:23 pm

Many of today's so-called "country" hits would have been listed as "Roc" back in the 50's and 60's, but I doubt seriously IF they would have been hits.

One thing is almost certain, they would NOT have been called "country". NOT even by the performers themselves, since in all likelyhood they would have KNOWN the flack they would receive.

carl

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 8 Mar 2004 12:23 pm

Some of the new country stuff might've been popular with the middle-of-the-road pop/rock listeners of the 80's. Production-wise, the drum sounds are from the 80's --as are the fuzz-guitar solos played on instruments with pointy headstocks.

Why is today's country music chasing after dated rock formulas?[This message was edited by Greg Vincent on 08 March 2004 at 12:25 PM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 8 Mar 2004 12:44 pm

Contemporary, crossover, rockabilly, country-rock, rock & roll, alternative, but not "country". I think that if Bachman Turner Overdrive made "Takin' Care of Business" today, somehow it would be put into today's "country" category.

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 8 Mar 2004 1:02 pm

Perhaps some of the "bakersfield"type stuff
the derailers were doing might have made it then? Allthough some never considered that style country,I sure do

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Sho-Bud ProII
"there's been an awful murder, down on music row!"

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 8 Mar 2004 1:17 pm

The crap that is being made now would NOT qualify as rock in the sixties or seventies. Not a chance. Too soft, too tame, too boring and syrupy.

Let's not forget that there was a LOT of crap produced in Nashville during the Nashville Sound era. A lot of it almost as bad as what has been made since.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 8 Mar 2004 1:40 pm

..I agree 100% with what Nicholas just said...the only difference between todays overproduced crappy country music and the overproduced crappy country music of the 60's and 70's is that it all had syrupy strings on it back then...

...there's only good music and bad music, all genres, any time frame...

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 8 Mar 2004 2:18 pm

You almost get the feeling that Music and the Music Business could actually be two separate and unrelated things.

There has, IMHO, always been a slim ratio of "MUSIC" to "Music that sells". It is fabulous when it happens, but (Grampa Simpsons voice): "99 PER CENT OF EVERYTHING ANYONE GETS TO HEAR WITHOUT HAVING TO LOOK UNDER ROCKS TO FIND IT IS CRAP!!!!"

"AND ONCE THAT CRAP STARTS SELLIN', EVERY JERK STARTS COPYIN'!"

Granpa, sit down! We can't help it if the music industry is run by people with MBAs who would just as soon be selling anything that millions of people will pay for! Yeah, I know that story "It used to be people who loved music". Remember Morris Levy? Things were crappy back in the day, too, and you know it, so have another beer and put on that Mills Brothers record you keep under your pillow. It'll calm you down. remember MUSIC and BUSINESS are two different things!

[This message was edited by John McGann on 08 March 2004 at 02:20 PM.][This message was edited by John McGann on 08 March 2004 at 02:24 PM.]

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 8 Mar 2004 2:38 pm

A distinction must be drawn between the SONG and the PRODUCTION. I think what most of us have a problem with (myself included) is the production; i.e. the use of big drum sounds, distorted guitar, synths, etc and the lack of fiddle, steel, dobro, etc. And maybe some of us don't like the vocalists.

IMO, many songs today are writen better, with more clever, thoughtful lyrics and more interesting melodies than ever before. It's really too bad that so many of them are getting screwed up in the production.

Take a song like Lonestar's "Amazed." A few years ago, a GIGANTIC crossover hit. Now, imagine it, stripped down and sung by, say George Jones in the 60's. Is it a hit? You bet your gold record it is.

A good, well writen song is a good, well writen song. Tastes and preferences in production vary with artists and eras.

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Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 8 Mar 2004 3:40 pm

No Problem.

Crap™ has always sold well.

It always will.

EJL

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 8 Mar 2004 4:53 pm

I think some of you have missed the point. Ben got it right that a well written song is just that, and done in the style of the times I believe it would speak to it's audience just as well then as now.

I was hoping for examples of tunes that might have that kind of timeless appeal, not
a bunch of diatribes on wheather or not commercial music is any better now than then or visa versa.

Here's another one: Could a modern novelty song such as I Want To Talk About Me or I Love This Bar have been cut by George Jones as a follow up to Nothing Ever Hurt Me (Half as much as losing you) or The One I Loved Back Then? Would those songs have rung true then?

There have been so many oldies that have been redone to death, my question is, if it were possible, which modern tunes would make the cut at Bradley's Barn or OMAC studios for that matter?

Just having fun here, nothing to get negative about.

BD

Jimmie Misenheimer · Post by **Jimmie Misenheimer** » 8 Mar 2004 5:12 pm

As I said in a post quite sometime back, I HIGHLY DOUBT that if I heard "country music" today for the first time, I would ever become a fan. Then again if I had never heard the "real thing", I guess that I would never have missed it. Luckily I did - now where did I lay that E.T. album...

Jimmie

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 8 Mar 2004 5:13 pm

You almost get the feeling that Music and the Music Business could actually be two separate and unrelated things.

Now you're catching on to what the pickers in Nashville have know for years. Big Difference in playing for money and for strictly the art of playing. That why you would see pickers from most all the entertainers bands playing on Lower Broad in the 70's.

A lot has been said about the down side of lower broad, but I have always contended that on any given night, there was more talent in that one (400) Block of Broadway than any other spot on earth. It was a place where you could learn from the very best, exchange ideas, techniques and sometimes you might hear a hit song months before it was ever recorded or released.

I also believe that music row had their spies down there a lot of the time, because you could hear a guitar or steel lick that you knew that one of your friends developed and later on hear it copied on a record.

Music Row was about the Music Business and Lower Broad was about the Music.

Time has gone by and it no doubt isn't the same anymore, it's probably a place where starving young singers are playing for almost nothing to get noticed, There was some of that in the 70's , but there wasn't as many singers trying to get a break as there were pickers trying to get work. There was a side benefit to all this, you could take any 4 pickers off Lower Broad and have a polished road band with little or no rehearsal. They were accustomed to playing with each other and everybody knew the system. I doubt if this is true anymore. I guess when pickers get something going that is good there will always be a bunch of wannabee singers come in and screw it up. I know I learned more about music and how to play it in one year there, than I had in the previous 11 before it.

To this day 30 years later, I can recognize one of those Lower Broad pickers by his playing when I don't recognize the Face.[This message was edited by John Floyd on 08 March 2004 at 05:45 PM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 9 Mar 2004 8:13 am

BD, I don't mean to be overly negative, but I speak as a professional musician. It's a bit hard to gauge audience appreciation of a song if they don't have access to said song, due to the vagaries of the forces that drive the industry. That's my (and Granpa Simpson's) point.

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 9 Mar 2004 6:22 pm

Hey Eric,
I think ya' nailed it. One man's BULLS*@# is another man's top forty country hit!

Robbie Bossert

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Mar 2004 7:09 pm

Who can forget "Ain't no Hain't Gonna Scare Me Away", Margie's at the Lincoln Park Inn, All of the Monkeys ain't in the Zoo, Miller's Cave, Doo Wacka Doo, Her name is __-_-__. Yabba Dabba Doo, the King is Gone and So are you. (" I ripped the head off Elvis, and filled Fred up to his Pelvis".) Little Arrows, ( Leapy Lee). That Little Girl Wearin Nothin But a Smile and a Towel on a Picture on a Billboard by the Big Old Highway,

Come on guys.

Bring on the Boobs and the Belly Buttons I say!

Mr Hinson can cover his eyes.

No peeking Donny..

EJL

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 12 Mar 2004 8:40 am

Guys like Tim Mc*** would have been flipping burgers in the 70's. I think Alan Jackson, George Strait and those greats would have come up in any time frame. As for the rest most of it is such crap that they never would have done anything without the BS Nashville machine.[This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 12 March 2004 at 08:41 AM.]

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 12 Mar 2004 9:48 am

I've been asked recently why I don't often post anything on the Forum anymore...Y'll just answered that question. I might as well have titled this thread: Todays Country Music Is Nothing But Bul@%$&*. I would have gotten about the same response.

What say we close this down now before it turns into a Robert Randolph style blow-out.

BD

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 12 Mar 2004 10:04 am

Before ya close it, I have some questions:

1. Is it the producers and DJ's who determine the popularity of a song?

2. Is it the kids who buy the songs the determining factor in the popularity of a song?

3. If the producers were to produce (and DJ's play) what WE love, would the kids listen to, and/or buy it just as much as they buy the "crap" (as some call it) they buy today?

The following is my opinion. The producers have NO control over it, except in a cause and affect scenario. They are simply catering to the trend. NOT leading it.

What say ye?

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 12 March 2004 at 10:05 AM.]

Ben Slaughter · Post by **Ben Slaughter** » 12 Mar 2004 10:34 am

Carl, good questions.

I'm not an insider so I could be dead wrong, but it seem to me that radio, rather, corporate radio controls what's popular and what's not. In my "market," Clearchannel Communications (the largest in the country) owns about 10 radio stations, including the only country station. The corporate programming director decides what songs to play and what songs not to play, and the DJs just push the buttons. The only goal of corporate radio is to sell advertising time, it is NOT to entertain us or promote "good" music. In order to maximize profits, they must attract the demographic that has the most spending power. So, if the programming director thinks that 18-35 year old females listen to Tim McGraw and buy Product X, then they play Tim McGraw and sell advertising time to the makers of Product X.

The problem with the music, from my perspective, is that when one artist has radio success with a certain style, then everyone else tries to emulate that style, creating a trend. Honestly, I blame the current trend not on Garth, but on Shania Twain, and her use of the "pop" sound, but you can blame Garth if you want.

Let us not forget that most of us dislike the current trend in country music, and country music sales are at an ALL TIME LOW. Coincidence? I think not. Today's popular country music has strayed too far from its roots.

Just my 48 cents.

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Ben
Zum D10, NV400, POD, G&L Guitars, etc, etc.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Mar 2004 8:03 am

BD,
When these types of ?'s are asked alot of forum users enjoy blaming or bashing whats new or anyone whose different from what they like.
To answer your ? It's a who knows?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 13 Mar 2004 8:29 am

Today's songs with today's mixing would not have been hits back then. But with some of these songs, if you used different singing styles and arrangements (but keep the drum parts), they could have been rock hits in the mid-70's.

Much of today's NCS is defined by a 70's rock drum track. The 'mini-lick' fills played by the steel, fiddle and guitar are a fairly recent invention, I think. The loud vocal with a Southern accent is the only part of the new formula that has real strong roots in country music, IMHO. The lyrics are still what sells a country song.

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David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Mar 2004 3:34 pm

A good song is a good song, If it resonates with people it will sell in any arrangment.

Would todays arrangments sell then? Some of them yes, most of them no, except as noted above in the rock genre.

The ones that would sell are from the minimalist production catagory, with a retro feel, but modern, yet timeless sensability.

There have been a number of good songs in the last 20 years, and not just from Bakersfield.

Some songs fit the times, others fit the human condition without consideration of time.
Like Amazing Grace.

Carl I think producers jump on the trend bandwagon for sure.
But sometimes the artist and producer do something a bit off the wall on instinct,
and it sells, then that starts the trend.
Others jump on and away goes music in another direction.
To the chagrin of those just getting used to the change before it.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 13 March 2004 at 03:36 PM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 13 Mar 2004 4:52 pm

BD- Sense of humor is indicated with

often used to highlight sarcasm or lack of deadly seriousness. Sorry if that offended you.

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