Real" Country Music ???

Jimmie Misenheimer · Post by **Jimmie Misenheimer** » 4 Mar 2003 7:33 pm

Since I buried my wife a month ago today, I have had alot of time to sit and think about things - and have started looking for some things other than the obvious. I have come to notice that the term "real country music", which comes up here quite often, means many different things to different people. It seems that most of the time, M. Haggard, and A. Jacksons name comes up. Before anyone starts in on me, let me say that while niether are my favorite, I do like some things by both. At 53, I'm sure that I'm a fossil, (and that I really don't care about), but when I think of "REAL COUNTRY MUSIC", they're just not who come to mind. I think of E.T., Carl Smith, Little Jimmy, Red Foley, Carl & Pearl Butler - talk about country music!! - The Wilburn Brothers, and while I could go on, I think you probably get the idea. Granted most are now gone, but there are still tapes and C.D.'s. Now maybe I am, but AM I the ONLY one that still thinks like this. Now - NO OFFENSE to anyones favorites, but I feel like I heard ALOT of "real country music" for YEARS before I heard of the afore mentioned personalities and their contemperaries. No harm - no fowl, I was just wonderin'... Jimmie

R. L. Jones · Post by **R. L. Jones** » 4 Mar 2003 7:50 pm

Country Music, a Great title . We all have our tastes in music, I like a lot of different typed of music. Country is my favorite, I,, like you ,i like the old country, music. I`m not too fond of real lively music .I prefer the pretty ,usually slow style . The old Ballads ,Love songs, the old heartbreakers.

Dont leave out the old country gospel, old beautiful waltzes,with soft fiddles, sweet steel sounds.

To me , that is country Music. If it doesnt have soul in it ,I dont call it real country music. Of course I`m an old guy.

R. L.

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 4 Mar 2003 8:00 pm

Jimmie,
Everything you said is "True", one you didn't mention that really comes to my mind is Ernest Tubb, a "real" country artist. I guess (to me) "Real Country" covers a fairly LARGE group of artists that HAVE the TRADITIONAL country SOUNDS in their music. Which I think includes Haggard as well as Jimmy Rogers & Allan Jackson. HOWEVER, there are many times when I LOVE to listen to someone like Herby Wallace or Buddy Emmons playin commercial Jazz. I don't know, I guess it depends on the mood one is in?

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 4 Mar 2003 8:14 pm

I guess that everyone has an opinion as to what "Real Country" really is. I believe that all the artists mentioned in this thread thus far ARE country. I'm guessing that when most of the guys and gals here discuss "Real Country," it's not what "Real Country" is. It's usually referring to what it's not. Country music/artists use to touch on adult themes aimed towards.......well, Adults! It seemed more universal somehow in that a grown person with a little life experience could relate to those songs.

There seemed to be a distinct polarization between Rock and Country and I for one don't believe that that was a bad thing. Now, it seems that everything sounds the same. I haven't heard any country music on the radio in years. However, it is out there if you just look a little harder on line and at your favorite record stores......(Yeah, I said records....but you know what I mean)

Check out: Dale Watson, The Derailers, Wayne Hancock, Bill Kirchen, Robbie Fulks, BR549, as well as tons of reissues by Bob and Billy Jack Wills, Hank Williams, Hank Penny, etc...... We start making the sales of these records go through the roof and maybe the powers that be will sit up and take notice

I'm off the soapbox.

Robbie Bossert

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 4 Mar 2003 8:31 pm

Jimmie, you're right that an extremely subjective and open term such as "Real Country Music" can mean many different things to many different people depending upon a person's point of view.

RB Jones · Post by **RB Jones** » 4 Mar 2003 10:54 pm

I once heard that Hank Williams said that "in order to enjoy country music you have to know what mule s___ smells like", or something to that effect. That's a definition that summed up the audience of the era before the "Nashville Sound" was created to combat Rock n Roll. Most of the listeners were from woods and farms and they understood the joys and heartaches of toiling on the land and trying to make do with a modest amount of worldly pleasures. One of those was to tune into the Grand Ole Opry on Saturday night to listen to musicians who understood what Hank was talking about. If you look at almost every musician to come out of the era that started with the first country recordings, they were from humble or downright poor economic backgrounds.

Obviously ole Hank's definition wouldn't work today because maybe 10 percent of country music listeners ever got near the south end of a north bound horse, never mind a mule.

So urbanization and higher standards of living has caused country music to splinter into a dozen different definitions. I don't call Shania Twain country, but a lot of people do. I call Brooks & Dunn country, but I know a lot of people who would argue that it's just rock n roll wrapped in a country sound. Toby Keith doesn't sound country to me, but Alan Jackson does. It just isn't easy to define "real" country music anymore.

RB

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 5 Mar 2003 12:11 am

Jimmie, I would like to start out by giving you my condolences for the loss of your wife. I heard you play at a club in Indianapolis a few years ago and I really dig your playing. My definition of "real" country music is this: It has a steel or a fiddle (hopefully both), it has a time signature of 2/4, 3/4 or 4/4, the 4/4 tunes are either "straight eighths, or a shuffle ( I could listen to and play shuffle's all night long), and it DOESN'T HAVE A ROCK BEAT OR A ROCK "FEEL" (no distortion on the guitar). I love to listen to and play REAL Rock n' Roll on guitar, (From 50's to Jimi Hendrix) and I loved the Byrds, old Greatful Dead, and Credence Clearwater Revival. If I never have to listen to another Eagles tune again (country rock), or any of the crap that Nashville is putting out that is similar, it would please me to no end. The era that you have mentioned paved the way for Merle Haggard, George Jones etc. and although their music is a little different I still love it too. I understand what you are saying and I always consider myself lucky when I get to play a gig that the music is older, like E.T., Hank Sr., Webb Pierce and all the rest.
Lower Broadway in Nashville is one of the few places left that you can get away with playing older C & W as far as I know. I sure hope it stays that way! I should also mention that I really love Western Swing and Bluegrass and I consider both of those genre's to be closely related to "real country music".
[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 05 March 2003 at 12:30 AM.][This message was edited by Bob Watson on 05 March 2003 at 01:29 AM.][This message was edited by Bob Watson on 05 March 2003 at 01:36 AM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 5 Mar 2003 12:20 am

This old timer would define "REAL COUNTRY"
as music played and sung by folks that grew up, living that life, that knew what they were singing about, by writing songs that told a story about that kind of life, love, heartache, dying, sadness, "OLD SHEP"....and did it all from the heart.
Think about how many extremely popular songs in the past, that were written out on a napkin or old envelope while being driven to the next performance in the rear of a bouncing and dimly lit automobile or whatever by an artist that then sang and recorded that song and made it into national hit! Hank Williams, Sr., and countless others, did that and were extremely successful.
Compare those songs from yester year with
a bunch of the "SONGS?" of today, talking about cop killing, women's menstral cycles, and that kind of dysfunctional mentality...written by a collective of money hungry and fame seeking folks that came to Nashville to make a name for themselves and had to join with a group of likeminded souls using an industry forumla to kick out a tune, one that so often lacks any kind of melody line that one can remember. Ad to this the heavy rock influence and you have some other kind of "music?" but certainly not "REAL COUNTRY".
In those olden days, top artists had to pay their dues and work their way up through hard work, with a dream of one day playing on the Opry and having a record contract.
Today, that Opry, as viewed by many long time devotees to "Real Country"........is little more than an amatuer hour for anyone that wants to jump up on the stage with ripped blue jeans and shirt tails hanging out while adorned with a brightly colored
noise making instrument and try to impress the world. They get up there and talk about their historical past, dating way back into the mid-1990's. WOW!
Give some of us a break! WE may be old but at least some of us know of what we speak. Our devotion to "REAL COUNTRY" has more to do with what we feel in that music
than attempting to impose one's "social" or
"political" views and/or rebellious attitude toward others by way of their attempts to play some kind of "music" under the guise of
"REAL COUNTRY".
Some of these new wanna-be pickers/singers remind me of someone building
tables and chairs today, while calling them "REAL ANTIQUES". Carpenters of old put much personal energy, feeling and love into every hand crafted table, chair, desk, violin, guitar or other wood work and carvings..........somewhat like the old "REAL COUNTRY" musicians used to do.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 5 Mar 2003 1:01 am

At 53, I'm sure that I'm a fossil

You are probably on the younger side of the average age on this Forum. Jeff (52)

Larry King · Post by **Larry King** » 5 Mar 2003 4:40 am

NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!You're not alone regarding what's real....while I agree that REAL country can mean different things to different people, I might as well get my two cents worth in. Watson nailed it closer than anyone where my tastes are concerned...our band does not have a lead guitar, per se. John Terry doubles on guitar when he has to. Otherwise its fiddle, pedal steel, rythmn, bass and drums. Songs are from Ray Price, Johnny Bush, Darrell McCall,Faron Young,Mel Tillis, Mel Street, Marty Robbins, etc. John says he quit listening to country radio the day Jim Reeves died..(almost true)..there's a few guys out there who won't compromise, refuse to lower their standards, and who still help carry the banner for the REAL deal. As far as the new artists...new to most people..Justin Trevino is at the front of the class, followed by Jake Hooker. If you laid a million dollars in cold cash on the table and told me it was mine if I could tell you the name of the number one song, I'd leave broke...heck, I couldn't even tell you a top ten song....don't like 'em..aint Country...don't know what it is, but it aint country. Dec 7th 2001 found us in Quihi, Texas where we enjoyed ourselves more than any time in memory.Period.End of conversation.The band? BILLY MATA..awesome music and the most solid rythmn section you'll ever hear. One other name to put in your memory bank..Dewayne Bowman..he understands what's its all about and has just finished an album down at Justin's that is one of the finest all-time country records recorded by anyone anywhere. My card reads "an uncompromised committment to the preservation of traditional country music. DON'T let it die.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 5 Mar 2003 5:06 am

Hmmmmmm. Real Country Music? I don't think that's a good name for any country music. It's all "real" to me. I'm 63 years old so I'm not a young boy anymore except in my head but I like the stuff out there today as well as the old tunes. I think that maybe country should go the way of rock & roll and be categorized. In rock they have classic, metal, punk, oldies, etc. Country should go that way too. The old stuff by the Delmore Bros, Jimmie Rodgers, the Carter Family, and people of that era is actually "real" country music IMHO but, all types of music evolve. It always has and always will. You can just spin you wheels and live in the past if you want but that's not for me. I have a very extensive collection of recordings and I listen to everything. It's strange that sometimes on the Forum I see people posting about the lack of steel guitar in today's music but we have a classic country station here in So.Virginia (1490 the Goldmine) and I can listen to an hour of music there or listen to an hour on the new country station (Eagle 97.3) and I seem to hear more steel on the new station. I think that Toby Keith is great as well as Shania and a bunch of them. Even ol' Garth had a whole bunch of steel on his records, remember Shameless, Beaches of Cheyenne, and others? I can listen to a CD by Faith Hill followed by one by Rose Maddox or Kenny Chesney followed by Tex Williams followed by the Cowboy Junkies or the Flatlanders. It's been mentioned on the Forum before of someone saying that there are only two kinds of music, Good and Bad. That's the way I look at it. I think I'll go play my CD single of Kid Rock & Cheryl Crow and then maybe a little Ray Price after that.........JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 5 Mar 2003 6:12 am

Slim Whitman!

Eddie Lange · Post by **Eddie Lange** » 5 Mar 2003 7:51 am

Wayne, thats hilarious

Yo-de-lay-he-hoo!

Buck Dilly · Post by **Buck Dilly** » 5 Mar 2003 8:47 am

Mozart was accused of writing opera that was "not real".

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 5 Mar 2003 8:49 am

I was wondering if I would get a reply out of that although I do have a record by him. I collect old vinyl records and love all the "real country" artist but like Jerry and others said there is a lot of new "Real Country" artist out there today. Most of the good stuff is not played on the radio so you must look a little harder to find it. Try Freighttrainboogie.com
Milesofmusic.com
Villagerecords.com
Some of my favorites are: Tift Merritt, Laura Cantrell, Big In Iowa, Derailers, Allison Moorer, Kasey Chambers, Hot Club of Cowtown, Be Good Tanyas, Heather Myles, & Jack Ingram.

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 5 Mar 2003 8:50 am

Jerry--HUMMMM, real country--I"m with you on this one and we are the same age (63). Some of today's country music I even like better than the older songs. The key word is SOME. There are several artists who I believe sing better than some of the artists of the past due to the greater competition of today.
R.B.Jones--If you have to know what mule ____
smells like in order to enjoy country music, there wouldn't be enough people listening to country music to fill a Grange Hall in a little town in Tennessee

. Face it--millions have jumped on the country band wagon since the changes have been made in country music. Just maybe we can have it both ways to entertain as many people as possible. As far as E.Tubbs, I never thought he could sing. He seemed to have the right songs and he hired super musicians to make him sound good. I have noticed that several of todays newer artists who have done remakes of the older songs do sound better than the originals. Joe

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 5 Mar 2003 9:36 am

Ray, there is always gonna be people we don't care to listen to. I know for a fact that most of the younger players who get to play the Opry worked their tails off to get there, just like players who came before them. You keep talking about all younger players with such contempt, I'm starting to think you don't have a clue. People your age don't make me any money O.K. Your not going out to party and sow your wild oats, remember those days? These younger players deserve a pat on the back for working it. You ever had a producer change your sound in the studio and tell you what it's gonna come out like because of a contract. What the heck do you think the stars listen to on their own time? Most good players listen to the old and the new, thats where you get Ideas! Jerry Hayes makes alot of sense. I look up to older players because they have alot to teach you about playing, why don't you start sharing that with younger players instead of telling them they are abunch of garbage.

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 5 Mar 2003 9:39 am

All who know me and my playing know that I am an avid "Real" Country music fan. However, a comment that Bob Watson made is disturbing.

He calls what comes out of Nashville, "crap".

It is not "Crap"..it may not be "Real " Country or even "Country" at all ...but it doesn't qualify as Crap.

How do you think that makes Paul Franklin Jr, Robbie Turner, Mike Johnson, John Hughey, Bruce Bouton, and the like feel to have you call thier artistic contributions on these tunes "Crap"?

BOTTOM LINE here is really this:

It is what the "new" music is being called that really disturbs most here. The music is generally good and in many cases well produced. Calling it country may not be altogether correct...but calling it Crap is unfair ...IMHO..

My $.02

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook Jr Band ~ Stardust Nashville Recording Artist

[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 05 March 2003 at 09:44 AM.]

Kenny Brown · Post by **Kenny Brown** » 5 Mar 2003 10:06 am

Any of the following names to me are REAL COUNTRY-- Hank Sr, ET, Ray Price, Webb Pierce, Loretta Lynn, Patsy Cline, Wynn Stewart, George Jones, Waylon Jennings, my list could go on.

Thank God for people today like DALE WATSON, Wayne Hancock, Hank III,and BR549 (to name a few of my favorites). These folks are keeping the sound of REAL COUNTRY MUSIC alive through their own style which is seldom recognized in today's mainstream circus.

Acts like Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, Shania Twain, Faith Hill, Keith Urban, SheDaisy, Kenny Chesney are some of the names that come to my mind when I think of how terrible "Country" radio is today. All of these Pop Country Stars are no more than marketing schemes to grow a listening audience and make money. I'm not saying those people are evil or anything, I just wish it was not considered "Country", because it isn't.

They should be the ones with a different category defining them rather than REAL COUNTRY being redefined in categories such as Americana.

There's my rant.

I want a country radio station that will play Dale Watson over the air.

I'm through now.

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brand new.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Mar 2003 10:15 am

Ray Price said it best on TV when he said,

"Why don't they call it what it is-----rock and roll?"

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 5 Mar 2003 10:44 am

I agree with what everybody's said so far musically speaking, but.....

Have any of you guys played any rodeo or 4H dances lately? How about "enlisted mens clubs" on military bases? Even the ones overseas?
Like it or not, these are a main stay of the new country audiences in the United States today. These kids all have to deal with the same "love, heartache, dying, sadness" and dying pets that all previous generations have had to endure. It's just that their lot in life was to be born at different time. The music they want for the most part is what they call "Country", even though most of us here do not. Who's right? Let's not forget that it's still the only format that has any steel guitar on a regular basis. I do know the media moguls, accountants, demographics people,and lawyers are imposing their values on the music world, but lets not forget that some of what theyre pushing really has deep meaning for the young generation...the "salt of the earth" of the future. I for one wouldnt want to take that away from any of the kids I've met who truly like it. I just try to plant "seeds" for the real deal whenever I get the chance...while remembering that everything comes in cycles.

Rick (51 yrs)

Joerg Hennig · Post by **Joerg Hennig** » 5 Mar 2003 11:06 am

Right now at this moment I´m listening to a CD from the latest bunch I´ve bought. Doug Sahm - "The Return Of Wayne Douglas". If you want to hear some "real country" from recent times, be sure to check that one out.
(Features our own Tommy Detamore on steel prominently!)

Regards, Joe H.[This message was edited by Joe Henry on 05 March 2003 at 11:09 AM.]

Merle Record · Post by **Merle Record** » 5 Mar 2003 2:10 pm

I have a great passion for "Real Country Music" and the older I get, I'm 53 also, the more it bothers me that producers of "Pop" music have somehow stolen the name "Country Music". Now ,I don't claim there is anything wrong with "Pop", actually, I like some of it , so that's not the problem. Local radio stations around here are always talking about "New Country" and "Todays Country". So if the're admitting it's not "Real Country" then it must not really be Country at all.

I read a cute one the other day, it was: "There is no such thing as New Country". "Music is either Country or it's not".

Now, I've got to go pack my bags for the Dallas Trip. Hope to see a lot of ya there. Merle

Melinda Dauley · Post by **Melinda Dauley** » 5 Mar 2003 2:22 pm

I wish i was going to the steel guitar convention, but my trip to Texas is a week late! Darn!
I listen to all kinds of music, some titled under country music that most definately isn't.
I feel like the true country music makes you get that certain nagging in your heart to quit this damn city and move out into the country where you can breathe and think for awhile.
I feel it when I listen to Jimmie Rodgers. It makes me cry. Especially "Away Out on the Mountain".
You know Hank Williams' line:
"The city life has really got me down, I got the honky tonk blues"?
I feel like "real" country music will make you feel just like that. Most of the time, it will make you cry if you listen too hard because you can get the real feelings out of it. Heartache, love, loss....etc. I believe "real" country music is what you make it to be. I'm sure there are a lot of folks I would be in disagreement with...
but if you think Shania Twain shakin' that a** to a synthesizer beat brings you back to a simpler time of farming and loving your family, I can't say anything to change your mind.
Damn I'm smooth.
Melinda

RB Jones · Post by **RB Jones** » 5 Mar 2003 4:30 pm

Let's be honest here, the reason a lot of country sounds like it does today is that the foremost thing about all pop music today is how much money it can make. The more ears you satisfy, the more dollars you get. Even entertainers we've come to believe were real or pure country weren't immune from wanting to have a pop hit. Patsy Kline, Jim Reeves, Eddy Arnold, Tennessee Ernie Ford, Marty Robbins and many, many others aspired to make the "crossover" hit and they worked hard to get one. Why? Because there wasn't a lot of money in country music back in the 30s-50s. What little they did make came from live appearances. Records and radio were the music videos of the day -- a way to get your songs out to the masses so that you could draw a crowd at the Opry or at the local dance hall or high school.

A crossover hit would assure you from ending up in the poorhouse after years of working on the road and might even make you rich.

Chet Atkins produced a lot of records and he said many times that one of his goals was to make country music that could also appeal to the ears of non-country listeners. Chet was as country as you could get, but he knew where the money was and the big bucks were not going to come from the humble folk who drove into town on Saturday night to see a show.

RB