Alt.Country

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Sep 2002 7:58 am

OK, this is by no means a scientific experiment, but last night, I had my digital cable box playing the alt.country station(they actually changed the name of the station to "Americana"), and 4 of the 5 songs that I listened to had PSG heavily showcased on the tunes. Then, just to see what the other country station was playing, I turned to the modern country channel, and only 1 of 5 songs had any PSG. Hmmmmmm.........

I know that this is no big revelation about the state of country music. But I thought it was pretty interesting. I have seen a lot of people slagging off the alt.country genre in the past, and I know it might be too rockin for lots of you. But at the same time, I think it is wonderfull that the instrument we all know and love still has a contemporary type of music where it is featured prominantly.

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Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 6 Sep 2002 8:33 am

Which alt.country artistes are they playing?

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Sep 2002 9:16 am

Whiskeytown, Uncle tupelo, for sure, and the others I did not recognize. As for the Country artist, I didnt recognize any of em. Pretty much sounded like the shite that they play on MTV, not country music.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 Sep 2002 10:24 am

Matt,
Whiskeytown and Uncle Tupelo have been disbanded for years now as far as I know. The current projects of the main guys from those bands are not using steel for the most part. Chamberlains, small dry snare drums and Hammonds are the latest thing used by bands that are trying to get over by seeming rootsy and sincere.

Bob

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 6 Sep 2002 11:29 am

Bob, actually Son Volt had some nice sounding PSG or Lapsteel work on a few of the tunes on their last album(Sebastopol). as for the other half of the defunct Uncle Tupelo, Wilco is doing pretty much exactly what you said. But being a vintage key freak, gimme a melotron, and some maracas and go nuts!

I wasnt trying to make any real value judgement on things, just thought that it was kind of odd.

Robert Todd · Post by **Robert Todd** » 6 Sep 2002 12:38 pm

The Derailers, The Mavericks, BR549, The Billygoats, The BlueJays are all alt country bands featuring PSG

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 7 Sep 2002 7:05 pm

How about Wayne Hancock, Rex Hobart and of course the Waco Brothers.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 7 Sep 2002 7:11 pm

What "IS" Alternative Country??? Alternative to what?? I mean I've heard this and I don't listen to Radio(any station); but I just don't understand the category......can someone please explain and I'm being Honest and serious.
Ricky

Bob Miano · Post by **Bob Miano** » 8 Sep 2002 4:04 am

Hey Ricky, I don't know if there is a real answer to your question (what IS alternative?).....I just think it's an
alternative to what is out there.......
Something different from the mainstream
country that is forced down our throats.
Apparently, there are a ton of artists who have great CD's (...and yes, a lot are using psg). Unfortunately, they just can't get airplay. Anybody familiar with a magazine called NO DEPRESSION?? It is dedicated to the "alt-country" scene.
I have heard, and seen bands like The HangDogs, Naked Omaha, Star City, etc.
They have some great recorded stuff (in my opinion, of course) but NO airplay.
If any of you ever get a chance, you should check out No Depression. It contains articles, concert reviews, CD reviews, etc.
And, NO, I do not work for this magazine.
I'm just passing on some info.
Bob Miano
Bergenfield, NJ

Dave Alfstad · Post by **Dave Alfstad** » 8 Sep 2002 6:26 am

Ricky,

Alternative Country is generally what you and I would call Country music while "Country" music is now more like the crappy Rock & Roll that I listened to in the 80's. By the way, Dale Watson is considered "alternative country" in those circles. I think they have got it all backwards! Dale Watson is COUNTRY and the CRAP they play on the radio should be considered alternative.

SCREW THE RADIO!
Dave Alfstad
Indianola, Iowa

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 8 Sep 2002 9:16 am

Thanks Bob and Dave....I guess that makes since how they come up with that Category...and yes it does seem assbackwards....but then again...many things these days have lost its origin...so I guess this is another....Oh well...we move on how we can....
Ricky

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 8 Sep 2002 10:17 am

Are these alt. country acts as good now as Ray Price and the Cherokee Cowboys were?

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 8 Sep 2002 10:23 am

"alt" is a pretty awkward way to title anything- I think that is why folks are gravitating to "Americana" as a name. The style spread between the Meat Puppets and Dale Watson is a pretty big stretch, but both could be considered alt. country. I'm glad that Americana is growing in usage. Jerry Douglas and Bela Fleck are also Americana artists. It is a more diverse expression of American music that has a certain spirit, that has gone in search of a format. I think that it stands a chance because of things like satelite radio, which do best when they can offer diverse content. Most regional stations won't take a chance on anything that strays from their advertising demographic.
If I'm not misaken, Eric Heywood played steel with Son Volt and a lot of the great early bands of the movement. I've heard that he has moved out to the west coast.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Sep 2002 11:33 am

The "Americana" label tends to include folk-rock as well as country, in my mind. I play now and then with Solid Air, who bill themselves as Americana. They play great music and they can sound country when they want to, but the basic sound is similar to Dylan, Mellencamp, etc.

I sort of like the alt.country label. If today's country is Top 40, then alt.country is Back 40.

Since this topic is more about "Music" than "Pedal Steel", I'm moving it to the "Music" section of the Forum.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 8 Sep 2002 12:52 pm

Bob Hoffnar:
What's a chamberlain?

erik · Post by **erik** » 8 Sep 2002 6:19 pm

A Chamberlain predates a Melotron.

Mark Ardito · Post by **Mark Ardito** » 8 Sep 2002 6:23 pm

The bands Uncle Tupelo/Wilco/Son Volt/Whiskeytown all used Greg Leisz. Although Wilco used Bob Egan (now permanent member of Blue Rodeo) for a little bit. I live in Chicago, home of Bloodshot records. They are kind of the king record label for Alt.Country.

The post up a little from Mark Durante is correct. People should pay attention to Rex Hobart and other bands on the Bloodshot label. Mark plays for a band called the Waco Brothers. He also played on a tribute record for Bob Wills with the Pine Valey Cosmonauts. This is a great record of some Bob tunes and it is a must listen. Mark...great job on that record!

Here is the link to Bloodshot Records

Mark

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Sho~Bud Pro I, Fender D-8 (C6&E13) http://www.darkmagneto.com

[This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 08 September 2002 at 07:24 PM.][This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 08 September 2002 at 07:25 PM.][This message was edited by Mark Ardito on 08 September 2002 at 07:27 PM.]

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 9 Sep 2002 5:41 pm

Mark, Thanks for the kind words, and to Dave B- don't hold your breath waiting for me to be as good as Jimmy Day or Buddy Emmons

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 9 Sep 2002 10:35 pm

Mark, I didn’t mean to offend anybody. But sometimes, as a country music fan, I feel the frustration that a modern day Egyptian must feel as he looks up to the Pyramids: that the best is behind him. I just got the Charley Pride In Person CD and once again I was vividly reminded of how great country music can be. It’s not just the steel players. We steelers are guilty sometimes of not giving Ray Price enough credit. After all, besides being a great, great singer, he hired Jimmy Day and Tommy Jackson and the rest of the great players. He was very serious about making great music. Sometimes I worry the Alt. country players are content to be better than NCS.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 9 Sep 2002 11:32 pm

Ricky, everyone here has made some valid points, most of the key bands from the late 1980s and into mid 1990s that helped define the most popular and known Alt-Country (or No Depression) genre are long gone.
Most have splintered, some are barely recording, and as Bob Hoffnar pointed out, the ones with the singers going solo tend to focus less on the Hillbilly side of things, hardly any steel or fiddle.. if anything southern-rock and folk-country seems to coming back with these guys.
(on a side note, Bob Hoffnar played and recorded with an excellent group Hoboken, New Jersey's very own Ghost Rockets, who without a doubt are an alt-country band.. )

Alt-country is just another term, like Country-rock or folk-rock, but it does help defire and create an image or something that doesn't quite fit, like the Flying Burrito Brothers weren't country, but they weren't exactly the Dave Clark Five or Beach Boys either.

Anyway, we all are familiar in the early forms of alt-country.. the early country-rock stuff, Poco, New Riders, Byrds, Burritos, Eagles, Dillard & Clark, the Band, etc.. and in the 1970s there was a mix of Southern rock and country rock, the latter tended to be increasingly watered down version of the Eagles, while the former grew increasingly amped up and less imaginative version of Lynyrd Skynyrd.

In the post-punk era of the late 1970 and early 1980s, country music slipped into various artists style.
There were bands who were more rootsy that popped up in Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Minneapolis, alongside their punk bretheren.

There were cowpunk acts like Jason & The Scorchers in Nashville, rockabilly acts popped up in various mutations, punkabilly, thrashabilly and so on, crazed gonzo versions of the old sound.

In California there was the country punk Rank & File, the R&B and rockabilly fueled X and Blasters. (the latter shared gigs at rock clubs with Los Lobos and Dwight Yokum), in Canada a singer named k.d. lang was performing a mix of energetic punked up rockabilly mets Patsy Cline.
There were so many others the Slaughtermen (Australia), Steve Earle, The Wagonmasters, to the new wave rockabilly of the Stray Cats.

While other acts were inspired by a mix of 1960s acts like the Velvet Underground, Byrds, Lee Hazelwod, Gram Parsons, Flying Burrito Brothers, Neil Young and Buffalo Springfield.. these 1980s groups, the Dream Syndicate, Opal, The Triffids, Green On Red, The Long Ryders, the Walkabouts and so on.
They mixed 1980s elements of pop and country and indie rock. Some of them added steel players live or in the studio, or did fok and country spin-off bands.

Also in the 1980s various folk artists from New York to Nashville were exploring the mix of country and folk, and with producers like Jim Rooney some were actually making crossovers into the country market.

Of course Ricky Skaggs helped bring Bluegras into mainstream country, while the Desert Rose Band brought some cutting edge 1980s production ideas and effects into the charts with their early albums.

The down side was that the polished sound of Nashville was still in effect and the West Coast scene was heavily dominated.
Some of the few who actually got through to the mainstream were Dwight Yokum, k. d. lang (who soon ditched country altogether), and.. well I'm sure there were others.

Anyway, by the late 1980s there was a swing to more rootsy country material. The Violent Femmes were far from country, but had brought a strong respect, as well as a college and punk audience to acoustic music.
While bands like Uncle Tupelo and the Jayhawks also climbed in popularity.

Actually the late 1980s was a boom time, the Country Rockers (whacked out Memphis roots rock) issued their debut in '89, Freakwater
Formed 1987 in Louisville, KY .., albs by the Walkabouts (from Seattle and even recorded for Sub Pop), the Silver Jews form in 1989, Smog debuted in 1988 with Macrame Gunplay, a cassette-only release issued on Callahan's own Disaster label. Cow followed in 1989, while three more tapes - A Table Setting, Tired Tape Machine and Sewn to the Sky - issued a year later, Joe Henry, the Blood Oranges form late 1980s, The brit punks the Mekons went to Chicago and got countri-fried in the 1980s, the Wallflowers form in the late 1980s, Uncle Tupelo is still together, The Jayhawks actually got a decent record deal, Southerners Chicken Truck who evolved into the Bottle Rockets, the Mavericks formed in 1990, others around include the Cowboy Junkies, Blue Rodeo, the Lonesome Strangers and so on.

By the early 1990s terms like Alt-country and the No Depression movement were used as an umbrella term to describe country-ish acts but it really ranged from the likes of Junior Brown, Dale Watson, Big Sandy and BR5-49 to Whiskeytown and the Palace Brothers.

It became a term to establish acts and styles away from the mainstream. The term No Depression was pretty much taken from an Uncle Tupelo album, and after that group broke up sort of dropped out of usage. There is of course the mag, which is one of the best roots music mags around. They'll write about Hank Williams, Wilco and Porter Wagoner with the same passion.

The Americana tag was brought in to help define a broader spectrum of sound, for the more bluesier and folky acts that didn't quite fit into the typical blues or folk catergory.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 9 Sep 2002 11:40 pm

Jason you are a catalog of information my friend> thank you and thanks to all that explained this un-explained genure of music all together.
I guess Golf is Golf....and Music in UN-definable.
Ricky

Brooker Buckingham · Post by **Brooker Buckingham** » 10 Sep 2002 2:36 pm

Everyone please note that every description of alt.country posted here is different from the last.

The phrase has effectively lost its meaning.

I think it's safe to say that alt.country originally was coined to define the punk/country fusion originated by Uncle Tupelo, which was then stretched to accomodate a wide variety of artists that gained popular attention in UT's wake: The Jayhawks, The Bottle Rockets, Richard Buckner, Freakwater, Whiskeytown, etc.

In effect, alt.country was simply a term used to describe any act in the early to mid-90s that displayed a country influence.

To answer some of the above posts:

Dave Birkett: No, none of these bands were or are as good as Ray Price and The Cherokee Cowboys.

Dave Alfstad: Damn rights Dale Watson is country. That's where the "alt.country" coinage falls apart. Because in a real world, Dale Watson wouldn't have a problem getting airplay on a country radio station.

And I agree with the assessment that the Americana label is more apt. Jason Odd knows what he's talking about. Man, I'd like to dig through his record collection!

On another note, that first wave of alt.country was responsible for me getting deep into Country period. If it wasn't for Uncle Tupelo/Son Volt/Wilco etc, I wouldn't have dug up Jones/Owens/Haggard/Price. I wouldn't have picked up the PSG and I generally wouldn't be the enriched country-loving fool that I am. Heck, now I find myself buying Mel Street LPs on e-Bay!!!

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 10 Sep 2002 3:12 pm

It's like if you like Jazz and you're a Kenny G. fan, while a friend is into Miles Davis, it's a broad spectrum and in general people like to define and seperate what they like from things they feel might not fit.
This of course has it's up side and it's down side, like most things.. it's never black & white.

A good example of how things are so different yet similar is the music of Bob Wills and Hank Williams in the late 1940s and early 1950s, he two are quite different, and yet someone like Hank Thompson seems to fit somewhere in the middle without sounding like a corny pastiche of either, totally original take on similar themes.

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 11 Sep 2002 9:37 am

I would also like to rake thru Jason's record collection. Wow!

I have to echo what Brooker said, if it wasn't for these Alt Country/No Depression/Americana bands, I likely would never have gotten into Haggard, Hank Sr, Willie Nelson, Price, Owens, Jimmie Rogers, and all the like. These younger bands that are frequently trashed by the purists on this very forum opened the doors of classic country for me. I see them as country, with a heavy nod to the Rolling Stones.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 11 Sep 2002 4:54 pm

Dale Watson is country, but he's also perforrming in a retro orientated style, whilst still writing and performing new material in that style with a modern vibe.
Dale is an alternative to 'mainstream' country, so that's pretty much why the term Americana has come about, after all.. you can listen to Johnny Cash, the Jayhawks, the Waco Brothers, Dale, Big Sandy, the Lucky Stars and Wilco without being too freaky about it.

In the real world Dale Watson is not a star and Garth Brooks is.

Are any Americana or country-alt type acts as good as the Cherokee Cowboys.. now that is a mtter of taste. I probably listen to the Wilco/Billy Bragg 'Wood Guthrie' CDs more than anything in my collection, so maybe I'm the wrong one to answer that.

Brooker, thanks for the kind words, although I find that I can never have enough Western Swing or Bluegrass, my collection is getting there. Still haven't got the new Moby CD yet, sigh...