| Author |
Topic: Question for you Les Paul 6-string experts... |
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 7:00 am |
|
When it comes to 6-string, I am mainly a Fender Tele man, but I tried out a Les Paul copy ("Tradition" brand?) the other day at our local music store and was impressed by how it "sang" without much effort. I wanted to try one out because Musician's Friend as some good prices on some LPs:
click here
and
click here
I remember seeing a guitar player for the Hag play "Workin Man Blues" on a Les Paul on TV many years ago.
In your opinion, will the Les Paul "cut it" in the country genre?
I thought I read where Gregg Galbraith used an LP on the recent Gene Watson album he did with Buddy. I remember he played one when he played with Paul at the 2000 ISGC.
Other than the weight of the guitar, what are some other things to consider?
What would be your opinion of the Epiphone LP-100? click here
What about the Epiphone LPs in general?
Thanks in advance...
Hey Frank, use the UBBCode for URLs when posting long links. -b0b- [This message was edited by b0b on 27 August 2002 at 10:08 AM.] |
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 7:57 am
|
|
Hi Frank,
I don't know that I'm a LP expert so to speak but...
I play a '78 Gibson Les Paul (bought new in'7 .
I was really into the Allman Bros at the time and that was the tone I was looking for.
Dicky Betts plays some great solos on a Les Paul on Allman Bros alblums as well as his own alblum (which has some nice steel by John Hughey).
Charlie Daniels played a Les Paul Deluxe every time I've ever seen him and gets a tone that is much more country sounding the the Allman Bros. Check out some of his earlier alblums.
Same goes for Toy Caldwell, ie. Les Paul with distinct tone.
The common thread with all these guys is the effortless ability to sustain a note for a loooooong time.
The necks feel good and the frets/action are pretty low (no jumbo frets).
Mine has a rosewood neck but the ebony necks are really nice.
Ibanez made some LP copies in the mid 70's that were so nice that Gibson actually sued them over it.
I'm not sure about the Epiphones. But some of the newer Gibsons are significantly lighter than my axe.
There are a ton of them on Ebay also.
One thing to notice when looking, Gibsons don't have bolt on necks. Some of the copies do. This might not be an issue if you're used to bolt on necks.
Some have binding on the front side only. The "Customs" have binding on both front/back.
I think just watch out for general workmanship flaws.
There is alot of info on the net about Les Pauls so you could read up on that too.
Find one that feels good and looks good and let'er rip!
|
|
|
|
Michael Holland
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 8:28 am
|
|
Hi Frank,
Thanks for bringing up the Les Paul topic, as I'm a certified Les Paul nut. The Les Paul has its own sound, and certainly won't be mistaken for a Tele, that's why we all need at least one of each, right? The humbucking pickup is great for that singing Santana tone, but you can also get good clean tones as well. The middle position with both pickups on (you can mix each because each pickup has its own set of volume/tone pots) has a nice, balanced, full sounding tone for rhythm and the neck pickup is great by itself for clean work, too. Yes, Gregg plays Gibsons alot (he was playing a really cool looking 335 on the morning show last week) and my 1994 Reissue '57 Goldtop is my main stage guitar.
As for the Epiphone imports - I'm against the import of sweatshop guitars from Indonesia or Korea or anywhere else. They're sub-standard instruments and the fact that they're made by nearly slave labor forces is just too repugnant. Yes, an American made instrument is more expensive but you get what you pay for and you can spend your money knowing that you're supporting your neighbors and the companies that still employ American craftsmen.
I can't resist showing off my 2001 Les Paul '59 RI - dubbed "ThunderHead".
 |
|
|
|
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 8:42 am
|
|
Thanks, Pete. I guess I should not have given the impression that I only wanted to hear from the experts.
Mike, thanks for the info. I did not know about the slave-labor issue with these. WOW! That is one beautiful axe you have!!!
I guess I was wondering if I would "get away" with playing an intro like "Chattahoochie" on a Les Paul. I kinda think I could.
(Sorry about the long URLs, b0b. Thanks for fixing them!)[This message was edited by Frank Estes on 27 August 2002 at 10:24 AM.] |
|
|
|
Dave Burr
From:
League City, TX
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 9:38 am
|
|
Frank, Here is a link to some "user" reviews of the Les Paul Jr. Lite (P-100 pickups). http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Gibson/Les-Paul-Jr--Lite-01.html
I'm a big fan of this guitar. I, like you have a tele as well and dearly love it. However, I like this guitar when I want something besides the "Tele" sound. This guitar gives me a very fat, warm tone that I'm looking for sometimes. I think it's a great guitar for the price.
Respectfully,
------------------
|
|
|
|
Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 9:54 am
|
|
I used to do Chattahoochie, and used the bridge pickup, wide open.
Sounds killer, especially with brand new strings!
Like steels, I would have trouble buying one sight unseen and having never played it.
Maybe there is a shop near you that you can play several models?... like a Guitar Center type place?
|
|
|
|
Billy Woo
From:
Los Angeles, CA, USA
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 10:27 am
|
|
I know for a fact that another famous "Guitar Player" played a Black Les Paul Custom in Georgetown (Crazy Horse) for years and "Wowed" The D.C. scene and later the world, Unfortunately he passed away some years later, his name was Danny Gatton and he was a friend of mine
Billy Woo
|
|
|
|
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 11:00 am
|
|
| This great guys. Thanks for the link, Dave! Any other LP owners want to weigh in? |
|
|
|
Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 11:38 am
|
|
I strongly suggest that you do your homework (which of course you are doing right now--but I mean hands-on). The LP came in a number of different flavors. From a playability standpoint I think the biggest issue would be the neck thickness. You've got LP Standard, LP Classic, LP Custom, and a bunch of year-specific reissues. They range from boat-oar hefty to slim-line fast. If you choose to go with a mail-order place (and there is a dealer online that sort of specializes in great deals in LPs but the name escapes me right now) be sure to spend some time in a store playing the different models so as to know what feels best to you. (Although ther's a bit of an ethical issue here).
I know the picker you're talking about with Hag--he was just being talked about here a while ago--a jazzy sort. I thought he sounded just fine. It reminded me that things ought not be etched in stone. I once had some country music act playing on TV while I was in the next room taking a whiz. I heard the most perfect Tele break. I came out just in time to see the picker playing a stinkin' headless Steinberger!! Taught me a lesson.
---I just studied on the MF links--I notice that it seems that the Gibson is all mahogany. The classic LP chemistry derives from a maple/on mahogany sandwich. Doesn't mean this would bebad. I think the maple issupposed to lend some bite to the mellower characteristics of the mahogany.
I have a hybrid LP Standard with fat neck, ebony fretboard, gold hardware, wine red body. A beautiful sight. But sadly I lost interest in guitar playing right after I got it. BTW--Michael--that is stunning! |
|
|
|
richard burton
From:
Britain
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 12:16 pm
|
|
| My own 2 cents: I have always found Fender guitars to be more 'user friendly' than Gibsons (especially Les Pauls). There is something awkward about the neck set angle on the LP that causes me to have to work harder than on a Tele. This is, of course, purely my own personal opinion, different strokes etc... |
|
|
|
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 1:12 pm
|
|
| Hmmm...Maybe I should just add some Lace Sensor pickups to my Tele instead. Any advice on Lace Sensor pickups out there? |
|
|
|
Michael Holland
From:
Nashville, Tennessee, USA
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 1:39 pm
|
|
Richard,
You're right that Teles and LPs feel very different when strapped on. First, the Gibson string length is 24 3/4" and Fender is 25 1/2". And the way the necks join the body is different also. This results in the Les Paul feeling 'smaller' than a Fender (strat or tele). I'm used to the position of the Les Paul design and find that my left hand just falls at the right place. Conversely, when I play my Fenders I feel I have to 'reach farther' to get to the open position. It's just what you're used to.
Frank,
Are you not happy with the pickups on your Tele? The Lindy Fralin pickups are generally considered to be the best available, and they offer an exchange guarantee if you want to try a different model of their pickups.[This message was edited by Michael Holland on 27 August 2002 at 02:40 PM.] |
|
|
|
Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 1:42 pm
|
|
Wow, Michael! Beautiful Quilted Top!!
I bought a LP Custom "20th Anniv Model" new in 74. I used it in a country band for a few years.
It sure doesn't have the Twang of a Tele but it's a very versitle guitar. Sooo FULLL sounding with loads of sustain. Perfect "Wedding Band" guitar.
It was also great for Western Swing, but needed help on Tele Style Rhythm parts. So I installed a switch that cut out one of the Neck Humbucking Coils. That made it a "single coil". No Tele, but close.
I feel the Les Paul is more versitle than a Tele, but some jazzers, like Ed Bickert, prove me wrong.
I still own that Les Paul.
Here's pix: http://pedalsteel.tv/InstDisk/Pages/LesPaul.htm
You can see the "Coil-Cut Switch" between the Volume Knobs.
|
|
|
|
erik
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 2:32 pm
|
|
| Joey, is that a dog trying to wrestle a bone from a cat on the back of your LP? |
|
|
|
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 2:59 pm
|
|
Michael, I am just a little indecisive at this point. All the input here has made me pause to consider what I really want. I really appreciate all the advice. Before you weighed in, I was leaning toward the Epiphone LP-100, but the issues of quality and slave-labor and it not being American-made changed my mind.
I do want a fuller sound out of my neck pickup which is currently just the standard Tele single-coil.
Since guitar is the "second fiddle" to my steel guitar, I try to keep its costs in check. I like the idea of having one guitar do it all.
Brent Mason has a Gibson humbucker in the neck position and has the middle pickup where he can get strat sounds. I had the middle strat pickup and 5 position switch added to my standard Tele and like the added versatility.
I have to admit that when I tried out that Les Paul copy the other night, it's tone and action reached out and grabbed me!
Joey: beautiful guitar and cool idea with the bridge pickup. |
|
|
|
Stephen Gambrell
From:
Over there
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 4:11 pm
|
|
The Les Paul is a Great axe. My first good guitar was a Les Paul DeLuxe, and I wish I still had it(Don't we all!). I don't recall Charlie Daniels ever playing a DeLuxe, in fact, CMT has been running some old Austin City Limits shows, and Charlie is playing that old Standard. Charlie, Toy, and Dickie(along with almost ALL the southern rockers of that era) played '50s Pauls, through Marshalls, and that's where the sustain came from.
A coil tap on the bridge P/U is a good idea to increase the guitars versatility, and a push-pull volume or tone pot would be less visible than another switch. It still ain't gonna sound like a Tele, but it will twang pretty good. No guitar is gonna sound like everybody else's guitar, ever. The early Paul Reed Smiths tried, but that infernal "sweet" switch, along with the 5-way pickup selector, just made things confusing. All that being said, I think a good Paul is as good as it gets!
BTW, the kid with Haggard's name was Clint Strong. Anybody know what happened to him? |
|
|
|
Joey Ace
From:
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 4:57 pm
|
|
Well, we tossed around the idea about making a LP sound a bit like a Tele...
Frank touched on making a Tele sound a bit like a LP. I've tried that too.
The result was a very versitle axe. A custom Tele with a LP Switch and pickup. It also has a PW Bender and beautiful woodwork. Still not a Paul or Tele. But close.
See it at http://pedalsteel.tv/InstDisk/Pages/Bender.htm
PS Eric, LOL!!! |
|
|
|
ajm
From:
Los Angeles
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 6:10 pm
|
|
There was a review of 4 Les Pauls in an issue of Guitar Player a few months ago. Check it out.
I firmly believe that any kind of music can be played on any guitar or amp. Strat/LP/Tele/Marshall/Fender/whatever.... they're in all forms of music....rock/country/blues/jazz/whatever. It's the person picking the strings that is the deciding factor.
I'm a Strat guy, and although I love hundreds of recordings done with Les Pauls, they just don't feel right to me. Not bad, just not "like home" if that makes any sense. Maybe if I hadn't been playing only a Strat all of these years it would be a different story. By the way, I have Lace Sensors in a Clapton Strat and I love them. I can't speak for Fralins or Duncans or anything else because I've never tried them. But they sure are popular and a lot of guys use them, so there is something there to be investigated. I'm just happy with the guitars I have and am willing to work with the characteristics that they each have.
To close, I had a Carvin Strat type guitar for a few years. It was a great price, the workmanship was great, it sounded great, it had all of the features that I wanted, but I could never get used to the neck. I walked into Guitar Center one day and there was a used Clapton Strat. End of story; the Carvin is gone now. There's lots of great guitars out there, but for me personally there's something about looking down that neck and seeing "Fender". Off of the top of my head, the only other guitar I might want would be an Anderson, but I'm going to need a higher paying job for that.
If I were going to buy a Les Paul, I'd stick with the "real" ones (which also happen to be the most expensive). A Standard, Deluxe or Custom. You might also try a Hamer, but be careful because they have started to make a lot of less expensive models. Get a real one from a dealer that knows what they're talking about.
|
|
|
|
Lyle Bradford
From:
Gilbert WV USA (deceased)
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 7:02 pm
|
|
| What is the difference in the Epiphone Les Pauls and the Gibson Les Pauls. They seem to have the same wood etc. Is the labor the bigest difference or are there others? I read somewhere that the Epiphone is the original Les Paul is this true? |
|
|
|
John Russell
From:
Austin, Texas
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 7:10 pm
|
|
The tone of LP guitars is sweet no doubt. I always lusted after one, then got the chance to buy one and balked. At that point, I'd been playing Teles for too long. Just couldn't get that familiar tone. Also the scale length, to me is a problem. Fenders feel much easier to play (big hands).
Now you can have it both ways if you're a tinkerer or inclined to assemble kit guitars. Warmoth makes LP necks and bodies, just about any type of wood you like including the chambered bodies that Gibson now offers (lighter weight and more sustain--they say). These are 25.5" scale necks, several widths available and they're bolt on. Before you scoff at the bolt on issue, check out the Godin guitar site (beautiful solid body electrics too) They make a good case for the advantages of bolt on.
Gibson made a few thin-line LP guitars, all Customs as I recall. I missed out on the chance to buy one a couple of years ago in plum color. Beautiful axe, I just didn't have the $1300 to drop on this guitar. These sound the same as the heavy standard width ones. I think that's what Clint Strong played with Hag. Dunno what ever happened to him. He does have an instructional video, I've seen it at Mars. What a wonderful player.
Oh yeah, those Lace Sensors sound pretty good and come in three different flavors (tones) I haven't tried the Clapton Strat but it sounds wonderful. ("Wonderful Tonight?")
--JR |
|
|
|
Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
|
Posted 27 Aug 2002 7:10 pm
|
|
Hey Frank,
The Epiphone Les Pauls aren't made by slave labor. Those people make a good wage for the country they live in! Also the quality is actually pretty darn good. I've tried out some of them at Mars Music in Virginia Beach and they're pretty dang good! You can't beat the price either. They even make a B.B. King model Epiphone which looks just like the Gibson except it has a rosewood fretboard instead of the ebony. I personally use an Ibanez Artist which is just like a double cutaway LP. I have both humbuckers tapped and had it routed out in the middle and added a Strat pickup there. I also disconnected the bottom tone and volume controls and just use the top two for a master volume and tone. The bottom two I have the knobs but all they do is pull up to turn tap the pickups. My Ibanez fits right into a LP case. It's black with gold hardware and has an ebony fingerboard. It was made in Japan and will compare to any Les Paul you'd want to put it up against. I like to do the stuff like "Workin' Man Blues" on the bridge pickup in the humbucking mode. It makes the compressor in my board work a lot better and the thing will really scream. I don't know if you'll be at Scotty's but if you are I'll show it to you. It also has Keith/Scruggs tuners on all six strings and a Bigsby Palm Pedal. What a guitar! Now if I could only play the damn thing!
------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.
|
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 28 Aug 2002 1:55 am
|
|
Frank, you can't go wrong with an LP, I have owned and played several LP Customs thru the years, BUT..man they can get heavy by the second set, by the 3rd set I was thinking about calling in sick and by the 4th set I was ready for the Chiropractor ! As Stephen said, it was Clint Strong on the Burgundy LP, and he is truly a great player and his unique LP tone and style fit perfectly with the Hag.I have several TV recordings of the Hag with Clint and they are some of my favorite for sure. You will find I believe ,that if you are a real Fender head ( like me and many others) you may be missing your "TONE" and switch back to the slab. For me personally, I have enjoyed all the Gibsons, Gretschs and Fenders I have owned thru the years but now at the tender age of 54 have returned home to only 1 Tele' in the barn. I say go get the LP and play it..but do keep the Tele' handy just in case..Oh yea, I would consider the real deal before a copy, I have played many many copies and in my little weak opinion none of them stepped up to the plate like the real deal. If you wanna drive a Corvette, don't buy a Miatta. I would make your best deal on a local used Gibson LP unless you can withdraw whats left of your 401K and maybe have enough for a new one !
tp[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 28 August 2002 at 11:28 AM.] |
|
|
|
Geoff Brown
From:
Nashvegas
|
Posted 28 Aug 2002 5:18 am
|
|
Interesting thread. Guess I'll weigh in. Some of my views have already been expressed by others. I like Gibson LPs. Having said that, they are over-hyped and extremely over-priced. I won't pay that kind of money for 6 letters on a headstock, when I know that there are guitars out there for less that sound every bit as good or better.The Epiphones are inconsistent at best. Lower-grade wood and other materials, fit and finish and sound...just doesn't do it for me. Maybe some think they are pretty darned nice for the price. I have played a number of them, and none of them lit me up much. A mediocre-sounding axe is not a bargain at any price, in my opinion.
LPs are pretty fussy in terms of your setup. IMHO they need to be run thru a hot amp at a pretty good volume, or you just aren't going to hear the complex and beautiful tones that these guitars are capable of. At lower volumes, thru a good many setups, LPs don't have any particularly distinctive tone, and can be rather bland sounding. Not so with Fenders. Just my opinion.
Suggestions? I would look into tracking down a used ES-335TD. 335s in themselves are a versatile axe, more so than a LP. The TD model has a coil-split switch that will give you some really nice, shimmering "Fenderish" sounds. Great for rhythm, and the bridge pickup when split can give you a nice twang. It doesn't sound like a Tele, but I can make mine squauk and bark pretty nicely. With the split off, the 335 has all those warm, fat, chunky humbucker sounds. And it sounds better at lower volumes than a LP will. Mine was made in 1978. It's the nicest guitar I have ever played. 335TDs have been made since the 60's I believe. Not always so easy to find, but not a rare bird, really.
You might also look around for a Hamer Special. These are superbly crafted and can be had for cheap, relatively speaking. I don't know why, but they just don't seem to draw the bucks on the used market. They are a solid value. Double-cutaway, pretty. If you're locked into the LP thing, I'd recommend Heritage guitars. Been around for years, made by former Gibson folks who left the company. Their LPs are every bit as good if not better than Gibson's at less $$. You can get a look at these geetars at: http://www.edromanguitars.com/home/
I'm not pluggin' Ed Roman. Never dealt with him. But man, lots of guitar info and tons of pics to drool over. He's got a Hamer Special used for $649.00. Just one man's opinion here. That and a few bucks will get you a nice set of strings  Of course,if you like the one you posted about, why not snag it? |
|
|
|
Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
|
Posted 28 Aug 2002 6:30 am
|
|
I played a '68 LP through most of the 70's and it was a great guitar cranked, but I never could get the 'sparkle' I wanted when I started playing more country gigs. I tried coil taps and all that stuff, just didn't work for me. I finally traded it straight across for a Sho-Bud Pro I and started playing Teles.
One thing nobody has mentioned is how many of the set neck guitars suffer broken pegheads or necks. My Tele has been knocked off the stand quite a few times with no ill effects. I've seen LPs, SGs, and 335s all get basically totaled in the same situation. I appreciate the neck and peghead pitch as a comfort factor, but that construction technique is very unforgiving if the guitar takes a fall. Repairing that type of damage is very costly and a lot of times the guitar is never quite the same, especially the type of repairs where the crack is just dowelled or glued.
Of course if you don't play in the joints, it's a lot less likely to happen. All the more reason to play a Tele... 
------------------
Home Page
|
|
|
|
Frank Estes
From:
Huntsville, AL
|
Posted 28 Aug 2002 10:01 am
|
|
Thanks for ALL the replies. They are very informative and have put my "wandering eyes" back in check. I am trying hard not to be an impulse buyer and the Musician's Friend prices and free shipping have been very tempting.
If I keep my sanity, I will probably just stay with the Tele and add a Blue Lace Sensor (50s humbucker sound) at the neck. I need to check with our local guitar tech first.
No guarantee that I won't suddenly get the urge to buy the LP...Not yet a grad from "Impulse Buyer Anonymous!"
|
|
|
|
