Make a Difference

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 19 Mar 2002 8:04 pm

Guys
It's real simple.When radio was deregulated a few years back corporations went from being allowed to own eight radio stations to now owning (in the case of Clear Channel)over twelve hundred stations. In addition Clear Channel owns all the major venues in America and also control ticket master.
It's easy to see how the airwaves can be manipulated,how ticket prices can keep going up and how the music will ultimately suffer.
Please call and write your congresmen and express your concern about the monopoly of our airwaves.Maybe then we can start to hear some honest country music again(with plenty of steel guitar of course)!

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Mar 2002 9:01 pm

...I tried calling my Congressman, but Clearchannel owns the phone company...all I can get is that recording of the lady saying "We're sorry..YOUR call did not go through"..

..all kidding aside, that's a good suggestion..get to your congressman before they do..the domination of the print, radio, TV and movie media by a few megacorporations such as Sony, Disney, Clearchannel or whoever lends itself to homogenized mediocrity at best and dangerous manipulation of information at worst...they don't have your best interests at heart, beware of them having an agenda...[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 19 March 2002 at 09:04 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Mar 2002 9:05 pm

Oh, but Bruce...haven't you heard? De-regulation helps the little guy!

Be it music, a marriage, a religion, a business, or a government..."big money" will eventually screw it up!

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 19 Mar 2002 9:27 pm

Unless you've given more money to your congressman than Clearchannel or the like has, it'll be a futile effort. Unfortunately, we don't live in a democracy, but a plutocracy.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Mar 2002 10:05 pm

...Dave, you've hit the nail right on the head, we live in a Plutocracy!...

...see what I mean?..Disney has an agenda...it's already too late to salvage these congressmen...[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 20 March 2002 at 08:03 AM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 19 Mar 2002 10:21 pm

Or, you can always talk to the comrades over in Peking or is Bejing. They'll tell you all about the benefits of government control of the media.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Mar 2002 10:25 pm

...I don't have to go that far, the FCC is in D.C., and they'll accept local currency..

Bruce Bouton · Post by **Bruce Bouton** » 20 Mar 2002 9:17 am

Tony, I'm not sure what you were getting at in your post. Do you feel that there should be Govt. controls limiting the amount of media outlets that can be owned by one company ,therefore assuring diversity in the information and music we get to recieve or do you believe in no govt. interference which then allows Disney ,Clear Channell,Enron and the like to rear their ugly heads and manipulate the markets for their own good.I'm not trying to be adverserial, I'm just trying to clarify your position.I personaly feel like it's dangerous to have a few companies controlling the whole media pie. At that point who's got the power. Also I'm just not sure that these corporate guys are big friends of the steel guitar.
BB

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 20 Mar 2002 9:48 am

Bruce, I agree with you 100%. We, the public, own the airwaves, and grant licences for their use. That they are now controlled by a few people is not in the public's best interest. Unfortunately, I don't think calls and letters from a thousand steel guitarists would do much good. I think we ought to take a lesson from Jazz. Country (and Country and Western, my personal favorite and a real endangered species)is, like Jazz, a national treasure that needs to be protected. We stand a better chance of going to Public Radio for airplay. I urge anyone who has a Public Station that plays country in their area to send them a donation. That's how jazz stations and jazz music are surviving now. And Jazz is doing quite well.
Dave

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 20 Mar 2002 10:04 am

Here’s another idea. If we had an “internet petition” (is there such a thing?) that said something like:
We, the undersigned, are listening to your broadcast and noting the names of your sponsors. Until you alter your format to include, in a meaningful way, “real” country music, we and our families will NOT buy the products of your sponsors.
That ought to scare ‘em.
Dave

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 20 Mar 2002 10:37 am

As I see it, the real enemy to steel guitar is not the large, multi-national media conglomerate. It's the six-stringer - the root of all evil and the bane of steel guitarists everywhere. Those are the guys who should be regulated and have to get licenses to play. And let's go ahead and throw in periodic continuing education requirements to maintain their licenses. All CE classes will be taught by steel guitarists (who will forget more music theory than a six-stringer will ever learn). By the fifth year of licensing, a six-stringer must demonstrate a minimum level of proficiency on steel guitar (as determined by an ad hoc board of steel guitarists in his or her state). This way, the six-stringer will either give up and quit, or... become a steel guitarist! This way, we can have more steel guitar on radio, AND receive dividend income from Clear Channel shares. On the other hand, this may not work...[This message was edited by Randy Pettit on 20 March 2002 at 10:57 AM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 20 Mar 2002 6:54 pm

Bruce,

I don't see a Tony, so I'm thinking you might have addressed your earlier post to me.

If so, I actually was trying to be funny, but I forgot to add the smiley face at the end

In all seriousness, you bring up a very difficult topic (IMHO) that has many issues to it. In another thread, I argued that gov't regulation of economic aspects of an industry was generally bad.

I guess I'd have to say that I do see your point. It would be nice to be able to turn the radio on, dial in your favorite station, and listen to exactly the type of music that you wanted to.

Also, as I suspect is your view, the thought of huge corporate conglomerates gobbling up all the broadcasting stations is a bit distasteful to say the least.

However, I seriously doubt that either veiw is a totally realistic.

I believe what must be happening now in the broadcasting industry is a "rebound" effect in response to a release from governmental controls. In other words, in a few years -- when the market reaches a more "steady-state" equilibrium -- the situation may change from what is going on now in that the big corporations may end up selling off some of the stations that they've recently acquired.

In my view, resources (such as broadcasting stations) should be put to their most efficient use. And, the most efficient use of a resource is generally determined by supply and demand in a free market environment. But, that's not to say that there shouldn't be any rules.

Even if the former governmental limitations on station ownership had been left in place, who's to say that you could find what you wanted to listen to on your local radio station today?

Although it appears that government deregulation has made if difficult to find certain types of music on the air, it may have been heading in that direction anyway.

However unfortunate it may be, it seems as though the majority of radio-listening people have musical tastes which differ significantly from those of most forumites -- including me.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the situation is quite as bad as it seems. There are new things going on, as I believe someone else said in this thread. There are other options not available previously, such as cable radio and satellite radio. Although you have to pay for these, you could argue that they're better than any actual radio station because you can find more of a specific type of music on them.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 20 March 2002 at 08:33 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 20 Mar 2002 7:32 pm

The saying I hate the most that the Liberals use is "Our Strength is in Our Diversity" That's a bunch of cr@p if you ask me. Let the market place handle things. No matter who owns the stations, if they're not making any money with what they play, they won't play it. The only radio stations that play what no one wants to hear is National Public Radio who play anything they want because the government gives them a grant and they don't have to worry about making a profit. Where I live we have a 24 hour a day station that plays Classic Country and two others that play new country and guess what? The Classic station doesn't even have 100th of the audience the others do. They have me because classic's where my heart is but as I said before, the marketplace rules what we hear, not Clear Channel.

------------------
Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 20 March 2002 at 07:38 PM.]

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 20 Mar 2002 8:04 pm

Bruce is right. The strong regional markets where people used to be able to eke out a respectable living are pretty much gone. I think for reasons including the ones Bruce puts forward. We've sure seen it up here in Canada.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 20 Mar 2002 8:11 pm

Bruce,
I've been looking into the clear channel thing and its just gets more and more ugly.
Interestingly there is a very strong music scene that exists under the radar of pop culture. Most of the young people I have been running into don't listen to the radio or go to mega concerts. They make and exchange home made mix cd's and then check out the web sites of something that they like. Then they go to shows at hundreds of small to medium rock clubs all over the country. There are piles of bands making a good living out there. There is a network of small music labels that do 50/50 printing and distribution deals. When a band sells more than 40,000 CD's a major comes knockin. These days bands are less and less interested in bending over for big labels and radio. It is a very interesting time we live in.

I've got a feeling that Clear Channel won't be with us for very long. They don't produce anything. It is very difficult to control every facit of the media and keep expanding at a rate needed to keep profit margins that make everybody happy.

Bob

This thread is ok but if you want more goofy political rantings head over to Off Topic

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 20 March 2002 at 08:14 PM.]

Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 20 Mar 2002 8:21 pm

I’m addressing this to Jerry Hayes. You’ve got a common misconception of what a market is. I’m sure you mean a free market when you say market, and one governed by individual self-interest. To get a solid idea of the ideal free market that capitalist societies strive for, I suggest you read Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations. Once you do, you’ll realize that we’re not talking about a free market here, and it’s not a Conservative/Liberal question. Adam Smith was very conservative, and he, I believe, would be appalled by this situation. First, the airwaves are few in number and owned by the American public. Not anybody can say, “Hey, I want to start a radio station,” in the same way one could start building steel guitars because the frequencies are all already assigned. A person cannot create a frequency. A person must go to the government to get a frequency. He or she must curry favor with a governmental agency (and it sure helps to have contributed to certain campaigns). Second, we’re not talking about the largest audiences deciding what’s put on the airwaves. The sponsors do. And they want specific audiences, ones that will spend money on their products. The furor over David Letterman and Ted Koppel serves as an excellent example. ABC wanted to dump Koppel to get Letterman. Why? Bigger audience? No. The demographics of Letterman’s audience are more attractive to the sponsors. Even though, according to reports I’ve heard, it is actually smaller, advertisers are actually willing to spend over twice as much to reach it. These airwaves are OUR property. We lease them to businesses who want to serve us, not to make maximum profits. Would you lease your front yard to someone whose only interest was to make the maximum profit when others would be willing to pay you what amounts to be the SAME AMOUNT of money to do something you approved of? I think not.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 20 Mar 2002 8:25 pm

I called Clear Channel. I said, "I'd like to speak to the president of Clear Channel."

He said, "Well you're close; I'm the guy who forwards your call to the wrong person."

I said, "I don't think you understand. I need to talk to the president."

He said, "I'll forward your call."

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 20 Mar 2002 8:53 pm

I agree with Bob Hoffnar -- radio used to be about the only game in town, but not any more. There are plenty of other music outlets around, and the consumers are finding them -- that's what happens in a free market. Also, as Bob says, this will have an effect on the big broadcasting conglomerates sooner or later. That is, if they see enough of what's going on, they'll change their tune (pun intended

)

Dave B. --
I have to offer this in response to what you've said. One of your premises is that the situation with the broadcasting industry is different because there is a limited supply of frequencies available. Although I agree that radio stations are limited in supply, this is no different than any resource. That's what makes the "supply" part of the supply and demand equation work.

Think about any resource -- what ever it is, there's only so much of it, whether it's oil, food, water, etc. etc. What people are willing to pay for a resource at it's available supply determines the price (in a simplified way).

True -- in a way, the people "own" the radio waves. But, how should we divide it up? If we say that we should do it on a per capita basis, then we still won't be hearing the kind of music that would be popular to the members of this forum. There are probably hundreds of special interests groups out there that outnumber this forum by 100 to 1 -- we'd probably be hearing everything from Mexican to Indian sitar music instead.

We allocate most other resources in accordance with the laws of supply and demand. You're right -- sometimes they tend to favor the money. They're not perfect, but they've worked OK for the last few hundred years.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 20 March 2002 at 08:55 PM.]

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 20 Mar 2002 9:59 pm

The Classic station doesn't even have 100th of the audience the others do. They have me because classic's where my heart is but as I said before, the marketplace rules what we hear, not Clear Channel.

...I'd like to respectfully submit that this is a misconception, and I base that on my observations right here in my own home...the most insidious thing about media domination by a few mega corporations is that they mold people from the cradle to want what they offer, and believe me, it works!

I have daughters currently aged 9 and 4.. on a daily basis I see T.V. networks, cable stations, radio pumping out Britney Spears, the Boy Band of the Month, whatever flavor they're promoting..coupling it with the clothes and attitudes they want to sell, the dance moves....I see my 4 year old mimicing the dances, I hear my 9 year old singing in a horrible nasal tone that she thinks sounds good because that's all she hears from the media.

Most kids are not part of a free-thinking, choice making marketplace...they choose from what's available...and when they grow up, they'll have jobs and money to buy more of the stuff that these people are selling and they will buy it because it will be the only thing they know...

...is this any different than when we were growing up? Yes. There weren't just a few controlled sources of media for us, there was diversity...there was no Chuckie Cheese or Burger King or Toys R Us or any of the other sensory numbing characterless places that give all the kids a common vanilla experience which is exactly the same in N.J. as in Brownsville, Texas....where's the adventure or wonder of going anywhere different if it all looks the same as right here...what insight is to be gained from meeting new people from the other side of the country who have grown up with all the exact same Disney movies, Fox T.V. Shows, Burger King Burgers and Britney Spears videos that you have...

...the big people eliminate diversity by design, and I think that's a bad thing...

[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 20 March 2002 at 10:21 PM.]

Pat Jenkins · Post by **Pat Jenkins** » 21 Mar 2002 7:15 am

I really believe the most educated and well informed people on earth are right here on the steel guitar forum. Some excellent opinions. I love it. What so many of you have said is absolutely true. Major media (broadcast radio and the 4 or 5 major television networks) offers little in the way of diversity. So where do discriminating viewers and listeners go. To the obvious alternative. Why do we have cable systems offering hundreds of channels. There is nothing to view on the major networks.
In our case, when you jump into the pickup, van or car, do you turn on the radio? Of course not, you slip in your favorite steel cd or tape. When you turn on your stereo at home, is it to your favorite fm radio station? Not that often, it is generally the turntable, cd player or prerecorded music. When you do not turn on your t.v. or radio, you are getting the message acrossed. Radio listenership is down overall, and down drastically in the country markets. Do advertisers see this? Absolutely. Are they looking for alternatives? Yes. They want your ears and eyes. In a few years, when you pick up a new cd, it may be brought to you by a major car dealership or your local plummer. Ah, the future, it may be better than the past, I don't know...Pat

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 21 Mar 2002 7:16 am

I'd sure like to meet these "big people" who hold the joy sticks that control my life, and give them a piece of my mind. Then, I'd ask them why I have to travel three states over to get a Whitecastle burger!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 21 Mar 2002 2:02 pm

Our local NPR station here in Sonoma County is pretty good. They play classical during the day, and an eclectic mix of local DJs in the evenings. I rarely listen to anything else.

Since this topic is not really about 'Steel Players', I'm moving it to the 'Music' area.

------------------
<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 21 Mar 2002 8:35 pm

..hell, Randy, where I work you can get a Whitecastle burger anytime you want..they have them packaged in celophane in the snack machine..

..I was just sitting here with music running through my head (as was discussed in another topic) and thinking about the hundreds of songs I heard growing up..probably one of the most popular AM stations in the New York metropolitan area (they didn't have FM stations yet) was WABC, a network station..but they had wide diversity..you could hear within the course of any given day instrumentals (Grazing in the Grass, Telstar, Apache, Herb Alpert and the Tihijuana Brass)- you could hear the Singing Nun, you could hear Ray Charles, you would certainly hear lots of Motown (I love Motown music!), surf music, Procol Harem, The Drifters, The Spinners, The Shirelles, British Rock, Bill Withers, Marvin Gaye, James Brown, Bobby Goldsboro schmaltz, Roger Miller, Johnny Cash, Bobby Darin, Sgt Barry Sadler, even the D.J.'s theme song would be a big-band instrumental...in short, you would hear about everything except classical or hard-core jazz all on one station, all in one day...

...and I can tell you they had no trouble attracting big advertising dollars (Crazy Eddie, our prices are INSANE - Denison's, the men's clothier, Rt 22 Union, N.J., money talks, nobody walks - Earl Scheib, any car, any color, $29.95)..

...and if I drove a little bit west, or listened on a clear night, I could pick up Hillbilly Music in Wheeling, West Virginia, which I would never hear in the N.Y. metro area..and my guess is that if I went within 500 miles of Texas I could hear western swing that I would never hear up here, either..

...that's the kind of diversity we don't have anymore..[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 21 March 2002 at 08:48 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Mar 2002 8:51 pm

Sure it's diverse. It's diverse music I ever heard!

Hey Pat, man, were you really born before Burger King?? Man, like you're ancient!

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 21 Mar 2002 9:11 pm

..alvays vith the visecracks..

..Jim, not only was I born before Burger King, I think I was in the army before Burger King...I know on high school dates we drove 10 miles or so to a diner or a pizza place...I think it was after I got out of the army in '74 that I started seeing that stuff up our way...they spread like a virus wherever the interstate highways went..