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Topic: Is LIVE music what it used to be? |
Franklin
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 9:47 am |
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Mike,
I promise you there is nothing to wipe off of my leg as you suggest in off topic.
Paul
[This message was edited by Franklin on 01 January 2002 at 09:58 AM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 01 January 2002 at 10:00 AM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 01 January 2002 at 10:02 AM.] [This message was edited by Franklin on 01 January 2002 at 10:23 AM.] |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 10:19 am
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quote:
My last trip to Texas I saw Ed Burlson at the Broken Spoke. The worst aspect of the evening was to much time between songs so the dancers left the floor.
Herb can back me up but when I see Cornell or Johnny Bush they always have at least a couple times a show where they go from one song to another. Even in a non dancehall situation this should cut down chatter.
The difference is called "showmanship," which includes the performance of the songs, but also what occurs in between songs. If a singer... and IMHO Ed Burleson is a great artist, BTW... doesn't have the songs rehearsed with the band, time is spent in-between songs discussing the intro, key, solos, etc. This is cool for the band and singer, but the audience sees only the entirety of the performance. If the show is flowing and contiguous, it is more impressive than if there are stops and starts, which causes the audience attention/excitement levels to drop, folks leaving the dance floor, etc. etc.
This is uncool in a dance show situation, but even worse in a concert format. And I've seen performers discuss the material, show chords to the band, etc. in concerts and believe me, it really looks bad then!! 
With both Johnny and Cornell, the leader gives the band discrete signals as to what song will be next, and between songs there is patter, comedy, schtick, and so forth. Direct communication with the musicians is minimal.
An analogy could be made to the... um,... physical act of love, to be genteel  . Imagine the response if, every three minutes, one of the partners stopped to go to the bathroom, answer the phone, make coffee, whatever, before going back to the activity at hand. Let's just say that the total experience for one of the participants would be diminished.
As it goes in the bedroom, so does it go onstage and the dancefloor. And I bet you guys can have a whole lot of fun with THAT last statement!!!!
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 11:42 am
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I can't talk about Nashville, or wherever in theStates, but as I see at this side over the pond..
Bob is right and Paul is right.
There is a lot of music going on, fading in the overall-country, looks like it's centered in places like p.a. Amsterdam, Nijmegen, Berlin, where you have music-scenes, but it is music of this time. The rap-scene, the "lounge-music", free jazz, hip-hop is big here, and country never was, so that doesn't count here. This is not our culture , overhere it's Carnaval. If you are open-minded, and like to back-up a scratcher, a singer-songwriter, take part in a bluesjamsession, you can play almost very night, on different locations. But it's not entertainment for the big crowd anymore, and this has (for Holland) a lot to do with home-entertainment,house-parties with XTC,internet-chat-relationships, fear for getting attacked in the streets and bars, way of living, hard, long stressy workdays and a need for sleep etc. Looks now if people can't find comfort in live-music, but seek it anywhere else. I think we are in a dip from a wave, where the crap will dissapear and the real ones will survive. Also, the mass of people who are single is growing, if this goes on, people will search for comfort outside of their houses and need to be entertained, and listening to a band is far more exiting then holding hand behind a computer or ....
If I talk about steelguitar in country and compare it with a accordeon in woodenshoes-dance music.. The open minds survive and find places to make music! Yes, the feel of sharing musical thoughts with warm bodies, not for the money, but for the need of excisting like a musical warm body...
I'm shocked by the off-topic subject, as I told some time ago....
From a European smart-ass
Happy newyear,JJ[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 01 January 2002 at 12:09 PM.] |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:05 pm
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Am I missing something or am I suppose to get mad at someone or everyone that disagrees with me? I thought that opposing views were just that, opposing views from someone who doesn't see things the way you do. Does that make it wrong? NO! Are you suppose to get mad and not speak to them ever again? NO! I'm still sitting back laughing at this thread and enjoying it but I'm beginning to scratch my head and wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't take this seriously. As for the towel remark in Off Topic, the late Ronnie Hiatt, Les and myself wore that joke out three years ago! It was intended as a bittersweet reminder of a friend's comment that is no longer with us. Johann, if Off Topic offends you, stay away from it. It wasn't intended for the good at heart, only the wicked and vile! Stay on me Paul, I'm out of practice but it's coming back slowly.
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:08 pm
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| Quote: |
| And some of you guys wonder why Paul and Buddy don't like to participate on this forum.They get raked over the coals. |
......not in Off Topic. Steel guitar or players seldom, if ever, get mentioned in Off Topic. There are more important things to solve such as the war on terrorism and straightening out Washington DC. We just don't have time to solve EVERYONE'S problems there! |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:16 pm
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Mike, I get the intention that you mean it in a good way,and so does Les, so I am shocked that Paul was/ is a topic between that crap I read upthere. He doesn't belong there, and never will!!
Happy Newyear, Mike!!
JJ[This message was edited by Johan Jansen on 01 January 2002 at 12:24 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:31 pm
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I'm still sitting back laughing at
this thread and enjoying it but I'm beginning to scratch my head and
wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't take this seriously.
Sometimes I make jokes with a straight face and even people who know me think I'm serious. I figure if they can make that mistake in person, I should kinda watch my words a little bit when I write something, especially when people don't know me or they'll take it seriously and be all over me. Mike, we don't know each other but I'd think maybe that happens to you sometimes...If you don't want to "water down" your sense of humor or way of wording things, then I'd guess you just have to expect that people will sometimes think you mean something in a stronger or maybe even hostile way, when you actually didn't. |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:32 pm
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quote from Herb..."doesn't have the songs rehearsed with the band, time is spent in-between songs discussing the intro, key, solos, etc".......
I am very acquainted with the scenario that Herb described above, and my biggest complaint about it is that the steel player is usually way over at the side of the bandstand and not involved in the discussion....but when all of the decisions have been voted on and decided someone looks over at the steel player who is completely clueless about the next song and says, "kick off_____in______!..and you are expected to recall the song and mentally construct an appropriate intro and count it off in "less than 5 seconds"!  www.genejones.com [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 January 2002 at 12:35 PM.] [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 January 2002 at 12:36 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:32 pm
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| Oops, that top paragraph above was supposed to show as a quote but I messed it up. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:34 pm
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| Gene, you're right on the nose! |
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Johan Jansen
From:
Europe
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Posted 1 Jan 2002 12:40 pm
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| Quote: |
| "kick off_____in______!..and you are expected to recall the song and mentally construct an appropriate intro and count it off in "less than 5 seconds"! |
Keeps us awake, doesn't it?? Love it!! |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 9:38 am
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I can't believe I'm agreeing with Mike and Jim! These are the guys I fight with(but still love). Mike, you are like Mr Donnie Hinson, everything I ever see out of you two I aggree with! Not to exiting a statement to make but I really feel you are totally correct. You have the "person on the street" perspective that we don't have here in Nashville . We had better listen to people like you here, country music is going down the tubes because idiots in this town don't listen to guys like you and Jim Phelps. We need your intelligent input and we need to listen to you, not argue with you! The world is screeming for a change in the direction music is going and Nashville isn't listening! Thats why we have lost 75% of what we had in the total share of music business. Wake up Nashville, the town I love, listen to guys like Mike Weirach, AND many million others,do we think we are doing good? Sorry, we arn't,compared to what it could be.
Bobbe |
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Joe Casey
From:
Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 10:34 am
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75% loss of the Business is real accurate and 80-85% loss of real Country Music and 70% of featured pure steel is loss on recordings. There is steel on many recordings however minute and when they want to get airplay in large markets they remove the steel tracks. Thank God for all the good steel shows and the super Dallas show coming up in March.
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CJC
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 4:29 pm
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Yes Joe, you are correct, thank god for the steel shows, and the fans,players,vendors,dealers,builders,etc. We have a tiny little world to ourselves, this is why I want to promote steel to everyone else, I want our world bigger. Maybe someday, we will have 25% just for steel! ! !
Happy new year!
Bobbe |
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Pat Burns
From:
Branchville, N.J. USA
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 6:38 pm
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| Quote: |
| Mike,....You have the "person on the street" perspective |
..that is to say, Mike, that you have the perspective of a street person.. (the smiley face is for Jim Phelps, he gives good advice about good-humored deadpan remarks coming across wrong in writing)..
..Bobbe, Mike wants people to argue with him here..he talks about this stuff all day at work and nobody ever disagrees with him or even offers a good counterpoint..
..just don't compliment him too much, he'll get to thinking so much of himself he'll need a towel for his own leg..
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Franklin
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 7:33 pm
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Seymore,
The guy on the street perspective I care about is the one who attends the many non traditional clubs in town. They speak volumes to all who will listen. There are so many musical options in Nashville for any musician willing to depart from the normal paths. Bob and Gene have the right musical view which I also share.
Look at it this way. In Nashville the traditional gig is only one source of income for all musicians. After that they also have the option to work as contemperary christian, southern gospel, alternative rock, jazz, classical, Folk, Bluegrass, R&B, Funk, and Blues musicians. You name it and I can name players who are survivng well off of playing music outside the country scene.
These are great musical times for those with an open mind to venture. You can salute whoever you want but there are more playing gigs for musicians outside the narrow scope of the traditional country venues in Nashville and that is a fact, not an opinion.
Paul |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 7:33 pm
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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!  at Pat Burns post.[This message was edited by Mike Weirauch on 03 January 2002 at 07:37 PM.] |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 7:51 pm
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Paul, I have a question and I'm not trying to be a wiseguy or argumentative, I'm serious. No matter what view's the "posters" have concerning the state of live music in Nashville, they all agree that about all you make in the country music clubs there is maybe $25-$75 a night. You yourself said, "Anyone with their sights on surviving off of what most road and club gigs pay should go see a shrink." Now you said, "I can name players who are surviving well off of playing
music outside the country scene." So would it then be correct to assume that these non-country clubs are paying quite a bit better than the country clubs, or are these playing all kinds of other gigs and dates in addition to these non-country clubs to make a good living? |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 7:54 pm
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Sorry about my typos, that last line is supposed to be:
or are these guys playing all kinds of other gigs and dates in addition to these non-country clubs to make a good living? |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 8:43 pm
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| Paul, I'm sorry that it offends you that I like traditional country music with a good solid melody line. I'm sorry that I don't share your views on the melting pot of music in Nashville today. Oh, it's melting all right, melting away. For years, longer than you or I, people have been coming to Nashville for country music, not a woodwind ensemble or a piano bar playing elevator music but I guess that will be changing soon. The majority still come to hear country music but like me, I guess they are wrong also by your standards. At any rate I will continue to listen to the music that put Nashville on the map. It was COUNTRY MUSIC and that is fact, not an opinion. Yeah, I'm closed minded when it comes to traditions and institutions because I was taught to respect and preserve them. I'm closed minded because I still respect those who helped make the music that is fast being replaced. I suppose that Nashville really won't need country music with all the other types that you say it has. Hell, Gaylord Enterprise is enough to draw 10's of tourist to Nashville every year. Yep, I'm closed minded but I'm happy! Sorry, you can't take that from me. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 9:21 pm
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| I realize that most everyone that plays lower Broadway does it for fun,or experence,or just to get their foot in the door.But I'm curious.Are union players allowed a certain number of non union gigs?Does the union just police the master sessions and Opry?Just curious. --bb |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 3 Jan 2002 11:54 pm
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Paul Franklin, I'd love to talk to you on the forum but I was asked not to by your sister and bOb himself.I was also told by her that she had permission from you to tell me to never refer to you or anyone in the Franklin family again , ever, does she have this permission and did you tell her this? She said it on the forum two months ago. Public record. How come you can talk to me and I can't talk to you. Wish I could, I actually agree with you on a lot of your posts, not all, but-------I have fun disagreeing too. Now back to your question, bOb,may I answer him? I don't want it misconstrued as "Harrasment". ( I'm saying all this silly stuff in good humor, so please take it that way!)I knew if I agreed with Mike Wirecrotch it might awaken "the sleeping giant". Pardon me, I have to fall off the computer and laugh awhile! Is this a wonderful forum or what?
By the way everyone(Bobby Boggs too!), Paul spelled my name wrong! Was it innocent or sarcastic? (who cares)Funny stuff here!
you know who!
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 4 Jan 2002 12:08 am
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I'm not being wishy-washy here, but everyone here has made great points, Mike, Paul, Bobby,Bob, Gene and Pat,Everyone, except me, This is a great thread and I feel all you guys are correct and all of the posts here have a lot of merit. I only wish Donny Hinson would come in now and tell me whats right or wrong. He always has the right view of the situation.
Clubs in Nashville? Unless I'm playing in one, I go to Mere`Bulls,or the symphony,or one of the jazz clubs, My radio is glued to WMOT in Murphreesboro Tn. . Twelfth and Porter has good music once in a while too.
Broadway? Maybe in New york city! Not Nashville.Where I work and where I go for entertainment are two totally different places.
By the way , I also played bass on a pretty hard "rock gig" the other night,($$$)My heart is still "hard country" though my mind is always open.(and my path is clear to tread) [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 04 January 2002 at 12:17 AM.] |
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