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Topic: Is LIVE music what it used to be? |
Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 29 Dec 2001 2:59 pm |
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| Bob, that's smart thinking and I think a valuable tip. Great way to open people minds (in the recording/producing world) to hear how versatile the steel really is, and also open the doors a bit. Thanks, I'll remember that. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 29 Dec 2001 3:33 pm
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Here is another trick I use to keep myself busy. I sit in with a new band playing whatever sort of music and I spend all of my time and effort making the singer sound good and bringing out whatever is strongest about the tune. Forget about riffs and solos. I try to think like a viola player in a string quartet. Everybody wants to be the first violinist and most bands already have plenty of guys that need attention. People don't notice the viola but without it the music doesn't work. Next thing you know I'm getting hired regularly .
The best way to practice this sort of thing for me is to buy a string quartet CD and the sheet music. Then I try to isolate the viola part and think about what its role is at the moment. (Like harmonizing the melody, texture, pads, doubling the bass, whatever...) I can't read viola clef but just having a visual reference seems to help.
Bob |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 29 Dec 2001 3:44 pm
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| I agree, in fact about two years ago I got called by a band needing another piece, went to the audition and got the gig. Then they called and said they just couldn't get enough money to add another piece. I said no problem, how bout I sit in for a couple sets Saturday night for nothing? They said sure. Next thing, guess what, somehow they got the money to add me. Sometimes you have to give a little in order to get. I never thought of emulating the viola's role but that's a great idea, actually when playing steel I identify more with fills usually done on keyboards, string- or horn-sections. I would say the object is the same; compliment the singer and the music instead of trampling it. |
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Franklin
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Posted 30 Dec 2001 2:42 pm
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Since 1972 when I moved to Nashville all the way through the 80's there were 5 clubs on the one block section that everyone refers to as downtown. Tootsies did not have live bands in the 70's and 80's and the others only had a single band working from 9 to 2:30 Those gigs paid 15 bucks a night. 4 band gigs were available per night. Hardly enough to support the hundreds of players constantly looking for work here on any given day back then. Guys that hate the musical turns this town has taken like Bill and Mike might try to convince others that it was somehow better back then but it really wasn't no matter how many times they keep posting the same old gripes. The bitching that goes on with this forum about things aren't the way they should be was heard everyday at any of the old hang outs like ShoBud and the Grammer store during the early 70's through to todays scene. Nothing new here.
Today there are 8 clubs in this downtown section with two bands per night one from 6 to 9:30 and the next shift is from 10 to 2. Tootsies has two bandstands going instead of one so it really counts as two clubs from the employment perspective. So now there are at least 16 band gigs available instead of 4 for this same area.
I was Randle Currie's sub twice last year with Sam Glass and was paid 40 bucks one night and 75 bucks the other between Xmas and New Years last year. That probably with inflation keeps it at the same rate clubs paid in this downtown stretch as when I worked them back in the 70's. I have never seen a time period where musicians could survive very well solely off of any club work in Nashville. Supply and demand is the reason. There are over 4000 musicians trying to survive in Nashville and probably only enough session, road, and club gigs to support 1000+ of the musicians living here. It stands to reason that alot of great and even incredible players will give a negative impression on how hard it is to survive here while others see it as promising. All music centers are the same.
The original question was about live music gigs in Nashville not traditional country gigs. Todays live music scene is better than I have personally ever seen it in my nearly 30 years of visiting and living here. Anyone with their sights on surviving off of what most road and club gigs pay should go see a shrink.
Bill, I believe you moved here with a false perspective which is why gigs aren't abundant to you musically. If all you know and want to play is traditional country music, what is available in a total music scene will be incredibly hard for you to comprehend.
As for Mike, I saw a bumper sticker that said it all "If only closed minds came with closed mouths" I would put a smiley face here if I only knew the right buttons to push.
Happy New Year,
Paul |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 30 Dec 2001 3:33 pm
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| Hi Paul, thanks for your post with the info on the Nashville scene, I for one have no problem with your authority to speak as one very knowledgable of that subject. Your description of the past and current scene in Nashville confirms what I've been told by friends and others...And yes my original question was regarding the state of live music, that means all kinds, not just country, but I was also directing the question to everyone everywhere, not just Nashville. It has been interest hearing the different opinions and descriptions and I think my question has been well-answered. Thanks very much to everyone who responded. By the way Paul, forgive me for telling a little story about you. I met you in '80 when Mel played a show in Salem, Oregon. A band I was with opened the show, we hired another band to play for us in the bar we would normally have been playing in that night. After the show you and the band and Pam came back to the bar and sat in and jammed. Up to that time, I thought "No steel player EVER plays another guy's steel, they're too different". Paul walked up to this guy's doubleneck, sat down and just played the **** out of it. I couldn't believe it. I knew "hey, this guy's good!" Glad to see you've been doing OK. Now if he could just figure out the smiley button... |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 30 Dec 2001 3:39 pm
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| By the way, HAPPY NEW YEAR to all. |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 30 Dec 2001 4:59 pm
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Paul, that bumpersticker must have been on a Toyota pickup. I saw one that you might appreciate on the bumper of a DeLorean which said "Inflated ego's seldom come with intelligence". 
......I hope I pushed the right buttons |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 30 Dec 2001 8:05 pm
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| Double Ouch Mike!!You got my attention.Guess you won't be getting any invitations to Paul's parties anytime soon. |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Franklin
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 4:43 am
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Earl,
Do you still have the birdland?
Happy New Year!!!!
Mike,
Jim,
I had a ball and thanks for reminding me it was you that night.
I'm with you, I do believe that live music across the nation is fading away although there are a few hot spots left. I believe the elements surrounding the music venues such as MADD, aids, and the home entertainment industry are mostly responsible for this situation.
Happy New Year,
Paul
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 5:02 am
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quote:
I do believe that live music across the nation is fading away although there are a few hot spots left. I believe the elements surrounding the music venues such as MADD, aids, and the home entertainment industry are mostly responsible for this situation.
......Exactly!
I see you found the "right buttons"! |
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Franklin
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 5:55 am
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Mike,
Contrare to your earlier suggestion about the live music scene here, Nashville is not one of the cities where live music is fading away, in fact the opposite is true. We have grown in this area mostly because of city planning. There are so many various music types happening here in the live venues. Nashville has become a melting pot for everything musical.
There are more clubs with live bands today and there are also more great musicians living here than in the past competing for those gigs. This is why there are so many heartbreaking stories.
Live bands all over town are playing stuff the traditional country fan generally wouldn't like but its still good live music. You always post about this town based on your personal taste which could never equate to an accurate evaluation of the music scene here. Sorry, but someone had to call you on it. No hard feelings.
Paul |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 8:18 am
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Hey Paul...I sure do have my Byrdland.I am looking at it as I type this.It is my primary guitar and the best guitar I ever owned.I bought it new in 1968 and as you know,it's the guitar that made me famous..Ha!  Anyway,thanks for asking and remembering. |
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Herb Steiner
From:
Briarcliff TX 78669, pop. 2,064
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 8:18 am
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Paul made a very interesting point, one that applies to Austin TX as well.
Twenty-five years ago, like Nashville, Austin was a center of (basically) traditional-style country music. Over the years, the importance of country music has diminished as blues-rock, alternative, punk, hip-hop, and other popular non-country forms of music were in their ascendency. Nowadays, there are only a handful of places where any country music... traditional, top-40, whatever... can be found. There are still plenty of places where rock-based music can be heard, however. And the rock outlets can often pack the crowds in, as did the country places in days gone by. And there has always been the handful of folk and jazz-type outlets.
During that 25 years, though, the population of Austin quadrupled, from 225,000 to close to 1,000,000. One would think that the number of places to see live music would have quadrupled as well. This has not been the case, sadly. The net result is that while there are probably as many clubs as there were a quarter-century ago, the percentage of the population going out at night has dropped considerably. The reasons have been said here many times before, as Paul and others have listed: MADD, DWI/DUI, alternative entertainment choices, cable and satellite TV, etc.
Again, I asked Leon McAuliffe years ago what he thought killed Western Swing. He allowed as how Elvis only was the straw on the camel's back. The main thing that knocked us out of the box was television. People just stayed home instead of going out dancing.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association
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Franklin
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 8:26 am
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Myron,
Its called "live" music because there are warm bodies on stage.
Why I moved here was for the slight chance I might get to play with some of the best musicians in the world. For me moving to Nashville was never about the money.
Paul |
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Larry Miller
From:
Dothan AL,USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 8:41 am
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| 328 Performance Hall, Douglas Corner, The Sutler, The Exit Inn, Gabes, The Nashville Palace (Great country band), The Midnite Jamboree at ETs, 12th and Porter, Bluebird Cafe, 3rd and Lindsley, The Courtyard Cafe (where Phil Vasser got his start, he also owned it) The Grand Ol Opry, The Station Inn. All of these venues feature live music. Hard country? No, not all of them, but excellent musicians are to be found at all of these places. Electric guitar players that make you want to put it up and never pick it up again. Keyboard players that blow your mind! Great Steel players (Johnny Cox, Paul Franklin, Mike Sweeney). Songwriters that, with just them and their guitar(Janis Ian,)mesmorize you. Nashville is Music City, there is something for everyone. Next time you are in town, and you want country music, I would suggest you stop by the Nashville Palace and the Midnite Jamboree. |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 9:16 am
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In a nutshell,___what is wrong with country music, is the presentation. There are great players, great singers, great songs and expert arrangements; but the presentation sometimes approaches embarassment. Present these great assets of country music, (and I do mean great) with more class, by spending more resources of money, time, and creativity on tasteful production and more audience will "tune in" (stage and television). Today audiences are much more sophisticated.
Some of the best country music I've heard has come off as a dress rehearsal at best. I could never watch "Hee Haw" and missed most of the good music, because of the absolute sillyness (mistaken for humor).
Production is at fault for other areas of music as well as country. But to cut through the obnoxious miked drums and amplifiers as big as apartment size refrigerators, there must be more creativity in presentation.
Rick |
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Richard Bass
From:
Sabang Beach, Philippines
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 9:56 am
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I need to put my two cents in here. When I moved to Nashville in the mid 60's the little clubs on Broad paid about 10 bucks a night. We didn't work these clubs for the money. It was FUN and we also learned alot. The pay in town has gone up a little bit, but it's still not much. There are a lot more clubs to play and from what I've seen and heard the tip jar can make it a good nights work. I was downtown a couple of weeks ago and I must have seen 6 or 8 different bands playing. Music is alive and well in Nashville. The clubs on Broad were never about the money, It was about the love of music and having a good time. I made my living for 30yrs on the road and I don't regret bit of it. Other guys from my generation made their living in the studios, a couple did okay in the clubs but it was rough, others went back home.
Well what started out as a quick note got a little long.
Paul, Earl, and forum members have a great New Year.
Richard |
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Earl Erb
From:
Old Hickory Tenn
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 10:10 am
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| ...and a very Happy New Year to you too Richard. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 3:03 pm
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I think everyone has good points and most likely the current music situation is a combination of all these factors. I'd like to say that I asked this question not as a whining complaint but because things in my area really are not as they were, and it was quite an unexpected surprise to me. 20 years I never had to even look for a gig, a few calls or a sit-in at a jam session was all it took to get a gig, even if it might not have been the greatest. I'm a much better musician now than I was then, and two years ago I quit a "regular job" to play music full-time again. Talk about a rude awakening. I can tell you point-blank that at least in Vegas and around the Pacific Northwest, live music has taken a big dive. I wondered if it was the same all over. Let me also tell you that I don't just play tradition country, although I grew up on that, I also got heavily into jazz, Latin, Blues, R&B, pop, even "easy-listening". I play steel, guitar, fiddle and bass and have played them all in pro groups on the road. It used to be pretty easy to get a gig, but not anymore. I believed a lot of this is due to the fact that no one can sit in a TV station for 16 years then come out and be top dog in the music scene overnight, but even all my old musician-friends have told me "it's terrible in town these days". Don't believe me, go to Vegas and try to get a band going. The local musicians refuse to even rehearse unless you've got something already booked! How do you book a gig without a band? Well some do, and that's the only way anyone considers you're worth their time. Well anyway thanks again to all who posted and a very happy and safe New Year to you all.
Jim http://jimphelps.com |
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Mike Weirauch
From:
Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 3:50 pm
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Hard feelings? Paul, how can either one of us have hard feelings when we know we are right, at least in our own minds! I'm sure Nashville has a diversity of music that goes beyond my preference but speaking of the type which made Nashville "Music City", there seems to be less "new" or "traditional" than in the past. Maybe one just has to look harder for it than you had to 30 years ago. As for LIVE, WARM bodies, I can only make money when they are not!
Happy New Year....... |
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Janice Brooks
From:
Pleasant Gap Pa
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 3:53 pm
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Production is at fault for other areas of music as well as country. But to cut through the obnoxious miked drums and amplifiers as big as apartment size refrigerators, there must be more creativity in presentation.
Rick
__________________________
My last trip to Texas I saw Ed Burlson at the Broken Spoke. The worst aspect of the evening was to much time between songs so the dancers left the floor.
Herb can back me up but when I see Cornell or Johnny Bush they always have at least a couple times a show where they go from one song to another. Even in a non dancehall situation this should cut down chatter.
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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Joe Casey
From:
Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)
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Posted 31 Dec 2001 4:42 pm
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Myron I know you good enough to know where your coming from however You can't compare Connecticuit with Nashville.In the early days it was mainly road pickers on nights off sitting in Nashvilles lower broad clubs,sharing licks,war stories and keeping up their chops with music they couldn't play on the road.It was an opertunity for a good picker to get seen and even jobs that were plentiful at that time...Most of the audiences were mainly pickers, singers and tourist when a bus would drop them off for a gander.I'm thankful for the friends I made during that era. I too worked for 15.00 a night in the late sixtys getting established and built a pretty good career doing a music I loved. I see nothing wrong with someone else going through what we did and maybe they will get as much out of it as we did. Nashville with it's abundance of players arriving every day makes it easy for club owners to take advantage.The mere fact that Tootsies has survived all the new ownerships and continues to still be Tootsies should tell us all something. If there are still clubs going strong then as long as a picker is happy then it's a good gig..What we all have to be is thankful we got to do what we wanted to do. As Paul said It's not all about money...However if one wants to eat steady there is no better reason to want to get paid.
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CJC
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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