Advice for Making Charts?

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 17 Dec 2001 5:36 pm

...not looking for advice on professional studio charts..do any of you amateurs have advice or experience on a format to use for "cheat sheets", charts on a music stand that you'll refer to at a glance before or during a song...How much info can you get on a sheet that you don't have to turn pages and can see at a glance..maybe notations about a particular lick you want to use at a certain place or a voicing that you want to use which may be different at different places in the song...the basics to me would be chord progression and probably lyrics (I know lyrics aren't necessary, but they help me follow the song, even if in an abbreviated form)...

...for those of you who use charts, how do you do it?..

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 17 Dec 2001 8:28 pm

I'm familiar with the Nashville number charts. I don't make many notes, but if I don't know a song and it includes a 3 or a 7b, I make a note so it doesn't "sneak up" on me. I can usually make all my "shorthand" prompts on the playlist next to the song name.[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 18 December 2001 at 05:43 AM.][This message was edited by Gene Jones on 18 December 2001 at 10:44 AM.]

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 18 Dec 2001 10:31 am

For many years I've been using Nashville Number charts. Although I've been a pro for around 30 years, these can be used by amateurs too because of their simplicity. Here's a link to a book you could buy on the system: http://www.nashvillenumbersystem.com/

Tony Orth · Post by **Tony Orth** » 18 Dec 2001 11:15 am

Pat,

Whichever system you use, hopefully it's abbreviated enought to get it on a 4x6 index card. That's what I use and it fit's nicely on the armrest pad of my SD-10. (or on the C6 neck would do.)

Since country music, like old rock, is repetitious, I usually just chord one verse and the chorus (and the bridge, if there is one). I can usually fit that on one side of a card.

I only use the cards for complex songs or passages. Otherwise, I really try to memorize the changes. I've found that, once I'm married to a chord chart, it's really hard to wean myself away from it.

As far as a system, I made my own hybrid.
I would suggest finding one you like pretty well and adapting it so that you can understand where to go quickly.

Best of luck.
Tony

Dave Diehl · Post by **Dave Diehl** » 18 Dec 2001 3:50 pm

Pat, I use the Nashville number system and I am not ashamed to say (or use) that I also have a small music stand that bolts to the side of the mike stand that I use to put the music on. I would rather do that and do it right than make a mess of it. I feel, to do that,(a mess)reflects on all steel players. I only use it ocassionally on songs we recently learned that I'm not real comfortable with but I do use it.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 18 Dec 2001 4:18 pm

...thanks for the thoughts...I do know and use the number system but a 1511 for example can be played a number of different ways...I often forget how or where I played a phrase or run in a song that I want to play in the same manner once I have it down (I'm no professional improvisor), and these aren't necessarily country songs, if fact usually aren't...I was thinking of notations under a bar or at the end of a line that might, for example, tell me I wanted a phrase to run from fret 15 to 10 starting on strings 5&6 as opposed to frets 3 to 10 or 3 to 5 or whatever..some kind of shorthand to remind me of where I wanted to start and end...maybe it's impractical, guess I'll have to play around with it...just wondered if anyone else besides me is afflicted with CRS (Can't Remember Shinola)

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 18 Dec 2001 5:29 pm

Pat,
You're the perfect candidate for the system John Swain has developed; a shorthand for remembering positions where you want to play something. Maybe John will post here and explain it, or you can email him directly.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 18 Dec 2001 7:54 pm

Thanks, Jim, I'll drop him a line...sorry I couldn't make it to your new CD production last week, life got in the way...but you'll make another one

..

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 26 Dec 2001 8:13 pm

Intro, outro, key, format, tempo, feel, mods, jump bars, solos, signature licks, where the singer's going to screw up; you know, a chart.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 26 Dec 2001 10:36 pm

Pat,
I make little index cards I keep on file for most of the bands I record or play with.
Typicaly It will have the key and structure with notes as to where the solos go or whatever like:

"Ratfink a boo-boo" key of E

intro E / / / D / / /(lay out)
Verse E /G / Bb / F / x2 (enter 2nd time)
Chorus (same as intro)(Lay out)
V
V (solo after crumbhorn)
C (Pad with great empathy)
vamp on A chord till que

That way I can keep track of the tunes and not waste rehearsal time. When I really need to have something memorized I will play a recording of the tune away from my steel,close my eyes and visualize the neck. I move my hands to where they should be as I sing my part outloud.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 26 December 2001 at 10:47 PM.]

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 27 Dec 2001 6:00 pm

..thanks for the response, Bob, that is the kind of abbreviated notes I was referring to, rather than professional Nashville charts..

John Paul Jones · Post by **John Paul Jones** » 27 Dec 2001 7:50 pm

Pat,

You said....

...a 1511 for example can be played a number of different ways...

Please explain.

Thanx.

------------------
John Paul Jones

GFI U-12
Evans FET500 amp
ART T2 effects
HM-4 harmony machine

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 28 Dec 2001 5:13 am

I know what Pat means........my "shortcut numbers" that I use ONLY for my own prompts, just reminds me which road to take at the intersection....not how far down the road it is to the next intersection.

If I were writing it for someone else to read, I would be more definitive. www.genejones.com

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 28 Dec 2001 1:36 pm

..John Paul, I see that you're a professional musician, I'm not sure if I'm being baited or not..

...what I mean is, say for example I'm in the key of C on the E9 neck, I can play a 1 chord in the pedals down at either fret 3 or 15 with several different string groupings available at either position, or at fret 8 no pedals, or fret 11 with AF, or 13 with the E's dropped and with many options for string grips at any of those fret positions...and that's just my starting point for the 1st I chord, I can play any of those options for my next I chord depending on what voicing I want to hear, they're all a little different....same of course with the V chord and the last I chord...the options for a simple 1151 (or 1511 or whatever) are limitless...so I want a shorthand to tell myself where I most likely want to begin and end a phrase or intro or whatever because I don't have it all memorized and I'm not capable of improvising simply from the chord progression..[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 28 December 2001 at 01:38 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 28 Dec 2001 3:20 pm

Pat,

You could just write a chart showing chord names (or numbers), fret positions and strings, something like this:

<pre>
4 Beats per Chord. For a split measure, underline the two chords in the measure.

G 10A&B Am 8A(str. 3,4,5) C 3A&B (str. 5,6,8)

D7 3B&D G 3 (str. 3,4,5) G 15 (str. 3,4,5)

</pre>
Sometimes I write small bits of tablature into a chart and include rhythm notation over the tab. You don't need to put in all 10 lines (or spaces). Something like this would work:

<pre>
3)______10B__10---5B________
___________________________
5)______10A__10---5A________

</pre>

------------------
My Site | Doug's Free Tab

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 28 December 2001 at 03:24 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 28 Dec 2001 3:37 pm

PS When I need a chart I usually write a very small one and put it right on the keyhead of the PSG. I use the measure lines and the chord names and maybe a few "clues" here and there. So the above chart would look something like this:

<pre>
|G |Am |C |D7 |

|G | / | </pre>

------------------
My Site | Doug's Free Tab

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 28 December 2001 at 03:42 PM.]

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 28 Dec 2001 4:06 pm

..Thanks, that would work, Doug, those are good ways to make short notations...I could make a notation something like "Intro 3 to 10AB, backward roll from str3, roll on 5AB, G 3" or similar notes to tell myself where I want to begin and end...it wouldn't make sensse to anybody else, but it would to me..this wouldn't be necessary on songs I know by heart, of course, but there's always new songs to learn, and the more there are the harder it is for me to remember them all..