Is This Musical

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 4 Dec 2001 3:46 pm

Some people are very sensitive to finger nails being scrapped down a blackboard. It drives them frantic !! My sore spot is string squeak on accoustic guitars. And three times in one day is just too much for me to remain quiet.

Last night on WSM and this morning on Public Radio, Christmass songs with those shrieks and squeeks from calloused fingers on new strings. Then just now on CNN, a clip of Sting with two accoustic guitars squeeking away for just a minute was enough to get me
up and typing.

I know where it comes from and why. I can't fault a Classical guitarist for those side effects that are never written down in the composition but are ever present in the performance. And never a word about them !!

No other musical instrument does this to my knowledge. At least not to this degree and with such patent disregard for the listeners ears and hearing sensibilities. IMHO it is not music so why should we tolerate it ??
You're right, I turned it off but it won't go away, will it ??

If I were to be perfectly honest and my PSG sounded like that, ever; I would have discarded it a long time ago. That may in fact, be a reason for our liking the steel sound so much. At least it doesn't SQUEEK !!

Paul

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Dec 2001 4:30 pm

Paul,
It is annoying, but some classical guitar
moves, and even jazz and folk fingerings, cannot get away from the squeaks...otherwise
one's timing and execution would be compromised. You would lose the song.

I guess that is just the nature of acoustic guitars.

Actually, John Lennon [or it may have been Paul or George] put the squeals to good use in their song "Blackbird". At the end of BB
you hear what sounds like a bird [a blackbird?]; This sound can be accomplished by turning the pick sideways and rubbing it up and down the neck on a wound string.

ChipsAhoy[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 04 December 2001 at 04:31 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Dec 2001 4:55 pm

I guess you can blame the super-sensitive mikes and light-action acoustic guitars. That, and the fact that they always stick the mike less than a foot from the guitar! To me, acoustical guitar sounds better recorded at a distance of about three or four feet. This eliminates a lot of those extraneous noises from the picks and fingering. Grassers tend play guitars with higher actions and they pick harder and stay further from the mike, so you don't notice this nearly as much in Bluegrass music.

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 4 Dec 2001 5:07 pm

I actually like it, it makes it sound closer the the fretboard. One man's noise is another man's music.

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 4 Dec 2001 5:40 pm

In the early sixties flatwound strings used to take care of that, until I realized they sucked.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 4 Dec 2001 5:43 pm

I recently bought a Taylor 6-string ('96 710 model) and have been using "Elixer" brand strings.
They have a "Gortex" coating which greatly eliminates finger-slide noise.
I have been recording with this axe and noticed the lack of finger-slide noise immediatly.
It seems folks either love 'em or hate em'.
I love 'em for playability and I think they sound great (and they last about 4-5 times longer than traditional strings).
I put a set on my mother-in-laws old Martin 0-16NY (typically known as the "New Yorker"), and she can't stop thanking me.

Interstingly, when I first heard this noise as a kid it was on a James Taylor song and I though it was cool because it was like I could hear his fingers touching/playing the guitar in addition to the notes/chords he was actually playing.
~pb

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 4 Dec 2001 6:04 pm

Chip: Didn't a rock group (The Ventures ??)
do a song called Apache where they did the pick scrape you described with echo added to make a sort of arrows zipping by effect ??

Chas: It seems as though your comment is the best summation so far.

Donny: Now that you mention it, I think that is correct about Bluegrass playing. I'll have to listen more closely next time and we have a BG Festival a couple blocks from me every spring. Thanks !

I've been to two Doyle Dykes seminars for Taylor Guitars and while in some cases he may use an amp and maybe not in others, I don't recall being agitated by any squeeks at his shows.

Regards, Paul

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 4 Dec 2001 6:49 pm

Finger Ease...pick up a can.

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 4 Dec 2001 9:28 pm

Paul,
Yes, the Ventures did a version of 'Apache',
but I am a little rusty on their take of it.

However, the original 'Apache' by Jordan Ingman, I believe does employ the same 'string-scratch trick'.

Actually, I don't seem to mind it much, as well. You at least know that the 'squeal' is real, and not some studio dub-in. Altho, now,
they probably have a way to even get that sound digitally.

ChipsAhoy[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 04 December 2001 at 09:31 PM.]

Tim Rowley · Post by **Tim Rowley** » 4 Dec 2001 9:57 pm

Rubbing the strings down with Fast-Fret before playing really helps quiet down the squeaks too.

Tim R.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Dec 2001 10:24 pm

Segovia made those squeaks sound like music. I don't know how, but they just pulled you in and gave the piece he was playing more depth. Most players just make noise, though.

Turn down the treble on your stereo.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
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Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 5 Dec 2001 10:55 am

Finger Ease...pick up a can

Earl,do you have to elaborate and just go on and on with such long post.

Ray

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Steeling is still legal in Arizona

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 5 Dec 2001 11:02 am

I'll have to say that I actually like it. It makes me feel like I'm sitting right next to the guitarist . . . a personal concert, if you will.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 5 Dec 2001 11:06 am

Altho, now, they probably have a way to even get that sound digitally.

Actually, my Kurzweil PC88MX keyboard has "Fret Noise" as one of the sounds.

Used by somebody who's very good at creating MIDI music, it would really help in creating a sound that's hard for many people to distinguish from the real thing.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Frank · Post by **Frank** » 7 Dec 2001 1:57 am

I`d be very happy if my old arthritic
fingers could still make squeeks, of course when your relegated to making 2 fingered G`s and C`s,there`s not a whole lotta squeekin goin on.
Take care....Frank.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 7 Dec 2001 5:11 am

The great jazz guitarists, Johnny Smith said in an interview, that he used to put a pencil under the string and rub the strings with a drinking glass to take off some of the roughness from the strings. Too bad, while doing this, he didn't get to think about picking the strings with his right hand at the same time; maybe we could now listen to some genious jazz steel playing by him

Jussi