Metal Bodied Resonators

oj hicks · From: Springville, AL

I have read comments and threads here on the forum concerning various brands of resonator guitars. All, as I recall, discussed wood body resonators...most with Quarterman cone. Several of the national discounters publish metal bodied resonators in their catalogs...Musican's Friend currently is showing the Johnson brass body (and apparently chrome plated) resonator for $700. They also list the RC-2 Duolian resonator, which also is a a metal bodied guitar, for $430.

Question: How does the tone and sustain compare with the wood bodied guitars? Do any of the "big guns" on resonators use them? Any recordings you could recommend that use the metal bodied instruments? What is the opinion of some of you forumites who are very knowledgable about the acoustics of these resonators?

oj hicks

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Mr Hicks,

Listen to "Tone Poems". Bob Brozman, Mike Auldrige, Grisman(?). They play the vintage National Resophonic instruments. This album is fairly recent and will give you the true sound of the vintage metal resonators. The liner notes give lots of detail about which instruments are played on each track.

National is building the vintage style instruments again.

I play wooden resos, and a vintage Tricone. They are really different animals. The single resonator metal guitars are also another critter. I won't try to describe the tone, cause I can't.
I think of three categories: Tricone metal body, single resonator metal body, and single resonator wood body. There are distinct acoustic differences between these three groups. Also, there is much variation within a group.

Hope this helps.

Dana Duplan · From: Ramona, CA

And there are spider bridge and biscuit bridge single cones, that lend different sounds. Can't go wrong with a vintage National Tricone!
D

nick allen · From: France

In general, bluegrass/country players always use wood-body, spider-cone instruments. Metal-bodied, tricone guitars were used by a lot of Hawaiian players, and some blues players. Metal-body, single-cone guitars are the classic bottleneck blues guitar (I actually don't remember seeing a squareneck metal single-cone, but I expect they do exist).
Having said all that, I for one am all in favor of breaking the rules!

Nick

Russ Young · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

OJ, "Tone Poems" is a great way to sample a wide variety of resonator guitars. You may want to get a copy of National Reso-phonic's 2003 catalogue . For $10, you get a paper catalog and 2 CDs. The first is an "audio catalogue" with Bob Brozman playing and describing all of National's new guitars, including brass, steel and wood bodies; single-cones and tricones; and biscuit and spider bridges. The other disc is "Artists in Resonance," a sampler CD with a variety of artists playing new National instruments.

And Nick is right about metal-body single cones with square necks; they're out there, but fairly rare compared to tricones and "dobros." As I recall, Paul Warnik owns (or used to own?) some vintage squareneck National Triolians and Duolians.

Brad Bechtel · From: San Francisco, CA

Acoustic Guitar magazine had a good review of several different metalbody resonator guitars a while back.
Generally speaking, most people who play metalbody resonators play blues-based music, as opposed to the country-based music played by woodbody resonator players.
The metalbody instruments are much louder but have less sustain (especially on single notes) and a sharper attack. They tend to excel as solo instruments, but don't blend as well in an ensemble.

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A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

David Doggett · Posted 28 Aug 2003 9:11 am

I have had a metal body buiscuit-bridge round-neck Dobro (with an optional raised nut) and spider-bridge wood square-neck and round-neck resonators of various brands. Also, I play regularly with bluegrass and blues pickers that have an assortment. And at the biannual Philly guitar show I've tried out most everything that was ever made (except some of the new Eastern European makes). I am skeptical of how much you can tell from a recording (too many mics, EQs, reverbs, amps and speakers in the chain). Here's my take from real-life listening and playing.

The metal body gives slightly more bite, slightly more volume, and a metallic sound. But they are slippery and heavy to play. There is bad balance between the weight of the body and neck. Sure, they look cool, but I don't like to play them, with the exception of a national tricone square-neck. A big drawback is that almost none of the round-neck metal bodies have a cutaway. Even though that is traditional, it is a definite drawback for playing bottle-neck slide.

The biscuit bridge resonators (regardless of body) are louder and punchier, with less sustain. The smaller ones (which is the vast majority) have a tinny, whinny sound that I don't like. The rarer bigger biscuit-bridge resonators sound better, but usually come in a body that goes to the 12th fret - bad for bottle-neck playing. The tricone roundnecks sound a little better (more mellow, quieter, not as whiny), but all seem to have bodies at the 12th fret (except for some boutique makes I have seen). Squareneck tricones are nice for Hawaiian or lap-style blues (check out the Black Ace).

The wood bodies with spider-bridge resonators sound much better to me than any of the above for any kind of music. Most of these have traditionally been square-necks for Hawaiian and bluegrass. The resonators are bigger than the typical biscuit bridge resonators, and sound more mellow with much fuller bass. The high strings can also sound great if you use heavy guages.

For round-neck bottle-neck slide playing, my current favorite is the wood-body Dobro 90C, with a spider-bridge resonator, and a cutaway wood body. Great bass and mids, and good non-whinny highs. And with the cutaway, I can tune in D or E and also play well in G or A. When you are jamming with a variety of players calling out different keys, this is invaluable. The National Radio model is a wood cutaway body with a small biscuit bridge. I don't like it's lack of bass, especially for solo work where you play your own bass line, but the highs really sing out, and might be good for cutting through with lead in an ensemble. In fact, this solo versus lead/ensemble could be a deciding factor for choosing between a spider-bridge big resonator or a biscuit-bridge small one. The bridge design and resonator size have a bigger effect on the sound than the body material.

Well that's my two cents.

Mississippi Dawg

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Student of the Steel, Fessy S12U, Emmons S12 E9 P/P, Carter D12, Nashville 400, Fender Squire, Peavey Transtube Supreme into JBL 15", 1968 Gibson J50, '60s Kay arch-top, 7-string Raybro, customized Korean Regal square-neck, roundneck Dobro 90C, 1938 Conn Chu Berry tenor sax, '50s Berg mouthpiece, Hamilton upright piano, Casio keyboard. You make it, I'll play it (sort of).

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

That's a great rundown. I agree with everything except 12 fret guitars being a limitation, I much prefer them. (even though I make cutaway bottleneck guitars) There aren't that many 'good' notes up there anyway and I always know where the 12th fret is.

David Doggett · Posted 28 Aug 2003 1:51 pm

Mike, Elmore James would be rollin' over in his grave to hear you talk that way about the 12th fret and beyond. He built his entire career up there. But even Son House and Robert Johnson worked out up there. Johnson played regular wood top guitars with 14-fret necks. Son House played both the 14-fret and 12-fret metal Nationals with biscuit bridges. He preferred the 12-fret because of the deeper sound. I played one of those once at the guitar show and immediately understood what he meant. I don't know if it was just because of the bigger body, or if it also had a bigger resonator, or both. At any rate, I think this was a compromise between sound and playability that he was forced to accept because there weren't any resonator cutaways in his time. When Fred McDowell got a cutaway electric, he still played in the old North Mississippi style, but started doing a lot of stuff up beyond the 12th fret. The cutaway freed him from a constraint imposed by the acoustic guitar manufacturers of his day.

I guess if you stick strictly to the pre-Elmore sound, being stopped at the 12th fret is tolerable. Also, if you have the luxury of only playing in the key you are tuned to, it's tolerable. But Elmore and others after him regularly went three frets above the tonic for the flatted third, and sometimes would go 5 frets up for notes from the IV chord on the first two or three strings. Those moves are very awkward and slow without a cutaway, if you can do them at all. Granted Elmore was doing this with a 14-fret neck early in his career (he played an acoustic guitar with an electric pickup mounted in the sound hole). But later, and for everyone after him, cutaway electrics were used.

But even if you don't want to do the Elmore and Chicago electric licks on your resonator, suppose you're tuned in D or E and someone wants to do a song in G or A. Now you can't even get to the tonic at the octave fret, much less anything above it. But with my cutaway, I'm up to the octave and beyond with my slide. Now the pros handle that problem by having several guitars with them in different tunings. And in the studio, they can just retune. But for jamming around, carrying a bunch of guitars is expensive and inconvenient, and retuning between every song is a big pain.

So, while you can get by without a cutaway, man, it sure makes life easier and more fun. Now maybe there is a sound issue. Possibly the cutaway subtracts enough from the body size to hurt the lows (although it doesn't seem to hurt the sound of my Dobro 90C). If that is the case, then I don't see why that volume can't be made up elsewhere in the body shape. Of course that would require a whole new set of body molds or jigs. At any rate, my take is that cutaways have rarely been offered to bottle-neck resonator players because they are more difficult and expensive to manufacture. And because so many such players are very tradition oriented, they don't look for cutaways in newly manufactured resos. I think this is all silly, and that most of us could play better (or at least play differently) with cutaways. And if you want to find the 12th fret easyily, put a big inlay there. But again, this is all just my two cents. Plenty of people who play way better then me do it on 12- and 14-fret necks with no cutaways.

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

I play up the neck a bit on electrics, but not much on 'acoustic' resonators, neither did Johnson or House. In fact the only 2 guitars RJ was ever pictured with were both 12 fretters.
The later 14 fret National cone is the same size as the 12 fretters. I also hear a difference in the two, but I've heard 14 fret Style Os with deeper bass than 12s. Just seems to depend on the guitar.
I originally made my cutaway tricone because I also (not being able to do the mental math without one) have to capo, up to the 3rd fret occasionally on my 'D' guitar. I also regularly play at the 15th and 17th fret on the G guitar, but I just swivel my thumb from behind the neck, use it to damp the strings, and slide that bottle up to wherever I want.
I'm not saying that 14 frets aren't nice, just to me, it's not a big selling point.

Then you have Howard R. who puts cutaways on his LAP guitars!!? ;o)

David Doggett · Posted 29 Aug 2003 1:05 pm

Mike, I am remembering a cutaway tricone pictured on someones web site. Was that yours? I thought some of the old original National style O biscuit bridge models had a larger cone, and I just assumed those would be in 12-fret models. I assumed from the sound that was what I played at one of the guitar shows here. But I didn't have a ruler with me and the dealer didn't know the cone size. Beard sells replacement biscuit bridge cones in sizes of 9 1/2" (which I thought was the standard) and 10 3/8", which I assumed was the larger size in some style O's. But I'm just guessing. As you say, there are big differences in sound from guitar to guitar in those old Nationals, sometimes for no obvious reason.

You may be right about Johnson on playing 12 fretters. I didn't have his picture in front of me, and most guitars from that era were 12 fretters. Johnson and Son House both played at the 12th fret quite a bit, in fact Johnson played Elmore's 12th fret lick. My impression was they did occassionaly reach up to the 15th fret. But I guess we'd have to transcribe all their songs to find that out.

My point is that their 12th fret limitation was because of the lack of choice in guitar designs, not because that was their preference. And if you are going to play in their style or any other in a key above the open nut, you need to get above the 12th fret with some ease. Even with the new Dobro cutaway you have to swing your thumb out of the way above the 14th fret, because it is only a single cutaway. But with no cutaway you have to move your whole arm out and around to clear the guitar body. It's like playing a lap steel by reaching your arm under the body. No fun.

The cutaway was a hugh selling point for me, and the main reason I coughed up the high price Dobro asks for these, and also the reason I had rather play this new guitar than any of the old traditional ones. I think there was an Asian Regal roundneck wood body spider-bridge resonator guitar with a cutaway made in recent years. But apparently it was discontinued before many were made. Also I had the new Fender non-cutaway roundneck resonator, but the Dobro 90C sounds much better.

Well, anyway, for me cutaways rule for bottleneck slide. But others mileage may vary.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 29 August 2003 at 06:27 PM.]

Russ Young · From: Seattle, Washington, USA

David, all the single-cone National guitars have the same size resonator -- 9-1/2". Although the 14-fret guitars were created by shortening the bodies, the resonator cones stayed the same size.

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

There are others who make them too, but this is mine. http://www.maricopaguitarco.com/tricone.html
I've made 4 but am not planning on doing any more, at least not anytime soon.
Like Russ said, all the National's had the same size cone. Beard sells a larger biscuit cone for metal body OMI and Gibson made Dobros. I had a Dobro 33R a few years back, it was a 14 fret model. I sold it get a 12 fret Style O.
Certainly RJ and Son House played above the 12th, but it was pretty limited, at least from my listening and the film clips I've seen of House. (BTW that was Emore playing RJs lick

)

Jesse Pearson · From: San Diego , CA

Mike D, great work, so beutiful and cool. I have a Johnson single cone resonator with a round neck 14th fret. Is the body always shorter on these 14th verse 12th fret guitars? I hadn't realized that RJ and Son House were using 12th fret guitars, I looked at some pictures and sure enough they did. I would like to hear your cutaway sometime, ever come to San Diego to gig or vacation? If you do, I would like to compare the sound of our instruments, so please e-mail if you do. Thanks...

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

Thanks Jesse, you're very kind.
I don't get to SD very often, but the real problem is that I don't actually own one of my cutaway tricones.

I sold the original one after it was built and the others have been for customers.
The 14 fret Nationals and the later Dobro and off-shore made single cones all have a shorter body. House also played a 14 fret Duolian along with the 12 fret guitars he's been pictured with. Who knows what Johnson played on the recordings but he's pictured with both a 12 fret Gibson and an unknown slot-head guitar that is almost certainly 12 frets. Some people have speculated that the Gibson in the picture actually belonged to the photographer. But Johnny Shines related a story that both he and Johnson both bought new Gibsons in Chicago, so it may also have been his own.

David Doggett · Posted 30 Aug 2003 6:38 pm

Mike, that's a beautiful cutaway tricone. I'd love to have something like that some day. But for now I have to pay off the credit card for what I have now. Do you think the cutaway noticeably affects the sound?

Mike D · From: Phx, Az

Thanks Dave. I've never made a non-cutaway metal tricone, but comparing it with other tricones I don't think it looses anything. The body on mine is slightly larger than a standard National body so that might be part of it.

HowardR · From: N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville

oj hicks · From: Springville, AL

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. Again, this shows what a tremendous service the Forum is to steel/resonator guitar musicians. There resides out there in "Forum Land" an encyclopaedia of information that would be difficult to obtain any other way. What an education we obtain just to "listen in" as you folk rap about the various instruments and tonal qualities. It equips those of us in the "need to know" category how to make informed decisions.

Thanks to everyone.

oj hicks

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