How many of you are "pedal pushers"?

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 23 Aug 2003 1:48 pm

How many of us also play pedal steel?

For those who do, which did you learn first?

In your opinion, which do you play better?

Also, how many don't play pedal steel, and have no desire to do so?

Just wondering, Chris Scruggs

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 23 Aug 2003 4:20 pm

I also play pedal steel.Started out on Dobro,
then on to Lap steel.From there it just seemed a naturel progression to pedal steel.Got to admit that I dont play the Lap
steel as much as I should.I would sure hate to have to choose.I play pedal steel,dobro,
and mandolin every day as well as guitar and
banjo(sorry b0b)as muchas I can.Although I love all my inst.I have a special place in my soul that only my dobro seems to reach.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 23 Aug 2003 4:23 pm

I started out on lap steel about 50 years ago and still like to play around on them. But to tell you the truth, I really like the chords that are available with the pedals and levers. I play "chordal melody" and use 3 string grips almost exclusively. This is hard to do unless you're a "pedal pusher".
Erv

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 23 Aug 2003 8:08 pm

Started on a squareneck Duolian about four years ago, got a 6-string lapsteel next, then several months ago bought a pedal steel. I love it, but I'm defnitely still way better on my acoustics. Hardly ever play the lapsteel, for some reason...

-Travis

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 24 Aug 2003 12:26 am

i started on a Gibson BR6 30 years ago and never put it down until i got an EH150 to replace it.
i don't consider myself a real nonpeddler since i have never played any 7 or 8 stringers.
i'll eventually get a D8...

i don't wanna die ignorant
i do play on a ShoBud D10

------------------
Steel what?

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 24 Aug 2003 10:47 am

I have been known to push a few pedals, sometimes three at a time.

I learned to play pedals first; but to this day, I still like the more fluid sound of the turning of a slant into a straight bar grip or vise versa.

Sometimes, when I hear Buddy Emmons playing "Danny Boy", I think, there's nothing more beautiful than that. But, of all steel guitar work considered. I still like non-pedal better.

Rick

Dan Farrell · Post by **Dan Farrell** » 24 Aug 2003 10:48 am

I started out on six string in 1959. Started playing bass in 1973 (guitar players were a dime a dozen in the 70s; guitar players like me were a nickel a dozen). Finally started playing pedal steel in 1999. Got my self a dobro in 2002. I can suck on the dobro as well as I can on the pedal steel.

Jeff Watson · Post by **Jeff Watson** » 24 Aug 2003 11:38 am

I started on lap in the late 70's and soon started playing pedals also. I've alternated at favoring one or the other (or neither) for months or years at a time ever since. Currently playing both equally....perfect. I'm always more comfortable playing pedal steel (unless its hard rock/blues) because pedals allow me to intuitively find sounds thru foot/leg movements that I have to "search" for with just a bar. I can always find something to play, thats interesting and has variety, with just simple pedal mashing. Thats not always so easy with lap steel. [This message was edited by Jeff Watson on 24 August 2003 at 12:58 PM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 24 Aug 2003 12:01 pm

I started with a lap steel in about 1943. Went to pedal steel in 1956 (Bigsby-quad + 6)
then Emmons dbl-10 8+4 in 1972 and back to Rick lap steels in about 2000. I can truly say that I enjoy playing the Ricks more as you have to think your way thro' each song and it requires some planning to get all you want with only six strings. I consider myself a STEEL GUITAR PLAYER, pedals or not.
I don't really make the big todoo that some folks make out of the differences in these two varients.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 24 Aug 2003 12:45 pm

I agree with Ray, that the most important thing is to be a STEEL GUITAR PLAYER.

Even though I don't use pedals, I can enjoy and appreciate a great pedal player.

However, I think alot of young pedal players don't have that approach of being a "steel guitar player", and would be lost without their first three pedals. I think it is good to have a basic understanding of both, whichever one you focus on.

I recently started playing pedals. I have a Fender 400 which I tune to a very basic E9.

1 2 3 4
E Ed
B C#
G# A
F#
E Ed
D C#
G# A
E

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 24 Aug 2003 12:50 pm

Whoops! That tuning didn't come out right!

OK, here is what I was trying to say:

1.E
2.B
3.G#
4.F#
5.E
6.D
7.G#
8.E
Pedal 1 raises string 2 to C#, and pedal 2 raises string 3 to A.

Does any body else ever use a tuning this simple? There is alot you can do there.

Graham Griffith · Post by **Graham Griffith** » 24 Aug 2003 1:32 pm

I play E13th pedal steel (Zane Beck's tuning) and this s-12 gives me big chords ... I play chordal melodies a lot on the old standards. I am most proficient on this instrument. It was a logical step for me to be attracted to the Eharp tuning, which is my principal non pedal tuning, as it also gives me the "jazz" chords. However, the other less complex tunings all have a unique beauty.

Graham

Chuck Fisher · Post by **Chuck Fisher** » 24 Aug 2003 2:27 pm

I play only lap-steel and thats because my feet don't move due to disability. But there is a certain elegane to doing it on 6 fixed tuning strings, I also play 8 or 9 string e13, but I kinda thought I wimped out when I did go over 6 strings - but e13 is great on more strimgs, the 6 string version has no low-end, I'm a blues guy and i like those low notes (so I can irritate the bass player)

Tim Whitlock · Post by **Tim Whitlock** » 25 Aug 2003 8:53 am

I started out playing 6 string lap in C6 about ten years ago. After about 2 months I added a second in A6. 6 months later I traded them both for a Fender T8 Stringmaster. About two years ago I picked up a Fender 1000 and got into pedals. At this chronological pace I may be ready for a 60's Sho-Bud in a year or two.

I still like playing stright steel, but it's nice to have the option of the pedals. I can get all the tunings I used on the triple neck, plus more, on the 1000.

------------------
Tim Whitlock
'58 Fender 1000, '56 Fender Stringmaster, '65 Twin Reissue

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 25 Aug 2003 11:05 am

Well, as most of you must know by now, (especially Jody and Ray), I'm an olde phart who has NEVER played pedals. I have always loved Hawaiian music and I just feel the pedal guitar does not lend itself to the 'authentic' quality, (whatever that is) of Hawaiian music. This is not the rule of course. One only has to listen to Bill Stafford and Roy Thompson to shoot that theory all to hell! Billy Hew Len tried pedals for awhile and I'm sure he felt there was something missing even though the pedals are capable of doing so much more than the standard (lap) steel...he played the frypan until he passed away. As Ray says, we're Steel Guitar musicians. I love good pedal, but have never had a real burning desire to play one.

Bob Stone · Post by **Bob Stone** » 25 Aug 2003 12:53 pm

I like all good music that's played well--how's that for subjective?

What especially appeals to me about non-pedal steel is that it seems to be more personal, more of the human element, not mechanical. It's all in your hands. And I seem to like the tone of a non-pedal best, although I've heard some great sounding pedal steels. The nostalgia vibe of an old steel like a Bakelite Ric or Stringmaster is fun too.

I play both electric lap steel and acoustic reso. At this point in my life I'm largely a social player and do very little gigging. So whether I play acoustic or electric is a function of what is happening at local jams and parties. For the last couple of years it has been mostly acoustic.

I started on Dobro, went to electric lap in C6, then back to Dobro. Playing the lap steel in C6 is the best thing that ever happened to my Dobro playing. It really taught me the importance of learning the fretboard and knowing where to find scales, picking pockets and double stops.

At this point in my life, pedal-steel is not something I want to get involved in. I'm just not up for all that heavy gear (bad back) and expense. There is more music waiting to be discovered on my non-pedal steels than I will ever be able to find time to play.

Besides, I'm contemplating buying some expensive Hasselblad camera gear.

Good luck with the Fender 400 Chris, keep us posted.

By the way folks, Chris Scruggs is a great musician.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 25 Aug 2003 6:59 pm

I'm seriously thinking about picking up a pedal steel. I have to sell a few lap steels first, though!

------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 25 Aug 2003 8:14 pm

When some of the folks get into a "pedals is best" mentality I believe that they paint themselves into a corner from which they cannot escape.

When others say they can only play Hawaiian music........for which pedals are not a true asset.....are likewise displaying a short sidedness that is unfortunate. Somewhat like a carpenter that refuses to use a hammer since he has a staple gun, EH?

Give a listen to "Hononlulu I'm Coming Back
Again" by one really fine steel guitarist.
HIs name is Kiyoshi "Lion" Kobayashi. His use of pedals is barely noticeable.

The BIG DIFFERENCE! He doesn't attempt to employ the "Nashville Sound" while doing so.
Sorta like what we did in the beginning of pedal steel guitar, using the pedals to get you into or out of a musically challenging
musical situation.

Jerry Byrd writes a very complimentary "cover" for this excellent CD.

It appears he plays a four neck FENDER.....
as well as multi-pedal UNIVERSAL.

Why not give it a listen BEFORE encasing one's mind in concrete. It might expand your mind in a very beneficial way.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 25 Aug 2003 9:26 pm

After 25 years of playing dobro,lap, and stringmasters, I finally bought a Fender 400 a couple of years ago. Now that's just about all I have been playing, I haven't even seen my stringmaster in a year.
I had an A6 on the middle neck and that's what I'm using on the 400. That way if I want to use the pedals I can, but if I don't want to use them I still know where I'm going(sort OF).

<pre>
PEDAL 1 2 3 4

A B
E F#
C# D
A G# B
F#
E F#
C# D
A G</pre>[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 25 August 2003 at 10:32 PM.]

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 25 Aug 2003 9:34 pm

I presume Ray's comments were addressed to me. I just want to reiterate, I am NOT anti-pedal by a long shot. However I still maintain Hawaiian music is best interpreted on "lap" which is NOT to say it doesn't sound fine on pedal. As Ray mentioned, it all depends upon who the pedal player is and his/her understanding of, and affection for Hawaiian music. I am well aware of 'Lion's' fine musicianship and fully agree with the opinions Ray has expressed. I merely mentioned (above)that, I have never played pedal and have no burning desire to take it up.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 26 Aug 2003 4:16 am

I have played Dobro for 33 years and still like it.
Lapsteel in C6/A7 for around 12 so far, but either could have been in other tunings at any time. A6, Leavit, E13, D7 etc.
But I really wanted more power last winter and got the Sho-Bud D-10 8+6.
As of this month it is now 8+8, to really give the C6 neck the power it deserves.
I played the C6 lapsteel two gigs ago and the Sbud last gig, I like both, it just depends on the situation.

I am hoping to get a playing tour of Rick Aiello's collection this afternoon!!

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 26 Aug 2003 6:23 am

Alvin,
How much money have you set aside for high A strings?

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 26 Aug 2003 6:52 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Alvin,
How much money have you set aside for high A strings?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So much that I bought another Fender 400 and tune it down a step. It doesn't break much as a high G.
As for the high A if I use an 09 and don't bend it, they last.[This message was edited by Alvin Blaine on 26 August 2003 at 08:25 AM.]

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 26 Aug 2003 7:01 am

I believe Ernie Hagar, Sonny Curtis and others use a high A string... of course, they then LOWER it to a G#, rather than raising...

Nick