Merle Haggard in the Chronicle

Bob Shilling · Post by **Bob Shilling** » 5 Jun 2001 10:00 am

This Sunday's magazine supplement in the San Francisco Chronicle had a really great article on the Hag. Probably not much in it that most forumites aren't aware of, so I won't repeat it.

But the author (Joel Selvin) had some really good insight into the state of modern country music. He referred to them as rockers in hats. Most of them grew up hanging out in malls, and calling themselves "Country" was simply a career decision. And, says Joel, "They all neeed a ladder to kiss Ernest Tubb's butt."

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Bob Shilling, Berkeley, CA--MSA S10

BJ Bailey · Post by **BJ Bailey** » 5 Jun 2001 11:06 am

And as Paul Harvey says.And now you've have heard the rest of the story.

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BJ Bailey

David Pennybaker · Post by **David Pennybaker** » 5 Jun 2001 11:23 am

and calling themselves "Country" was simply a career decision.

Given that "pop" acts generally get better signing bonuses than country acts (see a news article posted in a recent thread posted somewhere on this forum), why would anybody knowingly make a decision to call himself "country" if he were indeed "pop"?

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Quesney Gibbs · Post by **Quesney Gibbs** » 5 Jun 2001 2:24 pm

I agree with Bob about ET"s Butt. I have been lucky enough to be on a couple of shows with the great ET and his band and spent some time on his bus visiting with him and his band.

The nowadays hat acts don't know anything about real country music and don't even suspect anything.

I really did not know ET that well but when he died I felt like a member of my family had died. Bummer..

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 5 Jun 2001 2:24 pm

Because they only could find 'country' record labels in the south?

Pete Mitchell · Post by **Pete Mitchell** » 5 Jun 2001 3:25 pm

Hi, Quesney. Appreciate what you said about ET. A great guy to work for and yes, indeed, would never ever slight any fan, at any time, who might want an autograph, picture, etc. I had seen many times where a fan might come to the bus for an autograph, and if he had suspected in the least they might be upon "hard times," ET would very diplomatically spring for their admission to the show.

And Jason, thanks for your contribution to the Forum as it seems to me you are very well informed. However, country music was available, I know at least as far north, as Blind River, Ontario, Canada; although it would take a dedicated fan to find a source, which could be difficult at times. Which is the very reason why Ernest Tubb began the ET Record Shop which mail-ordered records around the world, guaranteeing safe sound delivery of very fragile 78 RPM's, which said a lot for the packaging. Country music had been stereotyped as being "hick," "hayseed," "hillbilly," which were expressions ET detested, so he was very instrumental in bringing the term "country and western" to the forefront.

Hey Buckaroos and Buckarettes, I have yet to see a "hillbilly" hick don an English kid mohair suit, tailored to the hilt, sport a 100X beaver hat with a crease that will still stand up by even today's Texas standards, as ET did many years ago. So, to these "country-WESTERN" artists who feel they must sport a cowboy hat, please do it with dignity, as opposed to some who appear to have sat upon it. YEEHAW! Texas Troubadour and proud of it! .....Pete

P.S. I can play the blues, too![This message was edited by Pete Mitchell on 05 June 2001 at 04:26 PM.]

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 5 Jun 2001 5:13 pm

I would like to agree with Pete on his statement about ET. I saw him in 1973, I think it was, though the year really doesn't matter. I know it was a thrill cause he had Billy Byrd and Don Helms with him at the shop on Broadway. They had to be somewhere and he wouldn't leave until everybody had a chance to talk to him that wanted to. He was in no hurry to part from any conversation. My folks and I must have talked to him for a least ten or fifteen minutes ourselves. He was a great man and that kind are few and far between.

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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Jun 2001 6:57 pm

This came in email recently: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Quote of the day from Merle Haggard:

"I've learned a lot since I wrote "Okie From Muskogee" and "The Fightin' Side Of Me"-I was as dumb as the rest of America. Americans have educated themselves, they know there's a double standard going on. There's not anybody in America with any education or of normal intelligence who doesn't understand that we're in the fight of our lives to maintain freedom in this country. We have been taken over my tyrants; we're being militarized. You can't go from your car to an airplane without being frisked down. We're real close to licking Nazi boots. If people don't realize it and get ahold of it, it's gonna slip right away...They've completely done away with the nightlife in America. There's no such thing anymore. The only states in the union that still have a nightlife are Texas and Louisiana. The Mothers of America have eliminated the bar business. There must have been 10,000 beer joints in California when I started playing music, and all those were breeding grounds for great musicians. SHlT, that no longer exists. When I got out of prison in 1960, I was 23 years old. From the time I was 24 till I was 30 I lived a life playing beer joints that was more fun than Donald Trump could have in America right now. The Rat Pack didn't have no more fun than I had. But that is not possible in America anymore. Fun has been totally outlawed. I'm proud I got to see it before it all went away...I feel sorry for you. If you were 50 years old you'd be madder than hell. You'd have seen America from a paradise where a guy could go to a Saturday night dance and have a fist fight, go home and heal and nobody shot at nobody. Two lane highways, entryways into each city were unique and the biggest thing that happened was the railroad train. That was the society I came out of and this chaotic mess we've got going now...I'm sorry for you.

Thanks to Felix Thursday
Section M Magazine<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 05 June 2001 at 08:01 PM.]

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 5 Jun 2001 7:12 pm

Hmm, I worked with Bobby Wayne (Edrington), Merle's ex rhythm player and harmony singer from the Bonnie Owens days for almost three years. He and many others said that he (Bobby) wrote Fightin' Side of Me as well as Harold's Super Service.

norm hamlet · Post by **norm hamlet** » 7 Jun 2001 7:45 pm

Jim,
Bobby Wayne did write Harolds Super Service, if you can check on the album you will find his name as writer. However Bobby did not write
The Fightin Side Of Me, it has Merle's name on as the writer and the reason I know is that I was present on the Bus when a lot of these songs were written. Merle has never taken credit for songs he did'nt write and I can say for sure he has written hundreds of songs that are great.
Merle is a unique individual who has a great
track record in the music industry, and he has his opinion on a lot of things. He is not afraid of letting people know how he feels about how things are going in this country even if they don't agree.
After working with Merle for 34 years, I still respect and admire the man and probably am still one of his biggest fans for what he has done for the music we call Country. He is still my favorite singer.
Norm Hamlet

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 7 Jun 2001 8:26 pm

Norm, I certainly didn't mean my statement as anything against Merle, just stating what I had heard. Now that I have it from a more reputable source, I will not propogate that misstatement any more.

David Wright · Post by **David Wright** » 7 Jun 2001 8:30 pm

I think Norm has said it all !!!!!
and he's right......

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[url=http://david_wright1.tripod.com/]My Web Page[/url]
Sierra S-12 9&7
Peavey-2000-PX-300

Bob Shilling · Post by **Bob Shilling** » 8 Jun 2001 2:40 pm

Thanks Norm. The Chronicle article was really great, but hearing from you is even better.

BTW, here's the URL for the article online, sans photos: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/03/CM114552.DTL
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Bob Shilling, Berkeley, CA--MSA S10

[This message was edited by Bob Shilling on 08 June 2001 at 03:47 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 8 Jun 2001 4:57 pm

This is why I dig the forum, not just for the topics, but for the fact that you can get Pete Mitchell and Norm Hamlet on one topic.. Yeeha!

Actually when I mentioned people signing to Southern labels, the pop labels are in Hollywood and New York, East and West, whereas there's more structure for country labels in the South, which has been overtaken somewhat by the Nashville majors, as they've gone so pop and soft that they seem to have a funky machine where any mall rat can go in and come out a scrubbed teen cowboy hat top #10 act.

Ironically back in the 1940s and 1950s Nashville was more of a launching base for the Opry broadcast and tour launching pad for the South and Southwest, where it was considered that most of the country market existed.
At that time Nashville started building up it's studio scene and the indie labels, while labels like Decca and Columbia were soon to open up Southern country divisions and change the face of the music industry.

It would have been an amazing time to be around.
Anyway my original point was that modern country music mall rats, are calling themselves "Country" as a career move, because in the Southern regions that's the best record label powerbase. Same as Texas I suppose, and the best example would be Lee Ann Rimes.

Pete Mitchell · Post by **Pete Mitchell** » 8 Jun 2001 10:32 pm

Hey Jason, I'm amazed that someone from Australia would be so well-informed on the Southern rural culture that sprang from the 30's to the present. Even more amazing, is how misinformed some of the natives are pertaining to American music right here in their own back yards. A good example is how many people right here in Buda, Texas, even suspect that a steel guitar playing icon once lived among them? Thanks once again for your very in-the-ballpark, interesting, and thoughtful threads. ....Pete

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 9 Jun 2001 6:49 am

Pete, there is a lot of literature on the music of the South, and I'm interested in Nashville and the Memphis music scenes over the decades, it's just that I'm a real West Coast boy at heart.

After all Hank Williams played the Louisiana Hayride and the Grand Ol' Opry, not the Hometown Jamboree.
I especially like how soul music and country music developed and interchanged in the Southern States, Alabama, Tennessee and so on.

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 9 Jun 2001 9:24 am

Of course hearing from Norm is a real treat and I surely enjoy knowing he listens in on the Forum. Tells you something....

But I wanted to say a special Thank You to bOb for posting his e-mail by Merle. It is a certain glimpse of the Giant. His mind and conclusions are as poetic as when his Mamma Tried. And that is why bOb runs this Forum. For moments like that are precious indeed. Thank you bOb ! Regards, Paul[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 09 June 2001 at 10:25 AM.]

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 12 Jun 2001 7:02 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>After working with Merle for 34 years, I still respect and admire the man and probably am still one of his biggest fans for what he has done for the music we call Country. He is still my favorite singer.
Norm Hamlet
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And after an equal number of years as a HagFan, DITTO!

I've been a HagFan since the very first time I heard him sing (1968). I remember it like it was yesterday. I was 12 years old and he's been far and away my favorite singer since then.

BTW: Bobby Wayne is actually credited in Merle's dialog on that live album with writing Harold's Super Service. Perhaps Norm can confirm that drummer Eddie Burris co-wrote Okie with Merle; check the EARLY credits/ Eddie's son Roy was in my 8th grade class. Roy told me this and I checked it out.I believe Merle later purchased all rights to his signature song.

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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 12 June 2001 at 08:07 PM.]

norm hamlet · Post by **norm hamlet** » 13 Jun 2001 12:57 pm

Ron,
Eddie Burris was given 25% of the song after he came up with part of a line in the song that goes Roman sandals wont be seen. Merle was looking for the name roman sandals and Eddie came up with it first. We were all setting up in front of the bus while Merle was writing the song. usually Merle doesn't like suggestions when he is writing songs. But he couldn't think what those shoes were called at the time, so thats how Eddie got writers credit. Eddie sold his 25% of the song to a man in Bakersfield and one in Ridgecrest and I am sure he has been kicking himself since 1969. His name still remains on the credits but as far as I know all the money he recieved at that time is all he made from the song. The royaltys from the 25% go to the Two Gentlemen that bought it.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 13 Jun 2001 4:41 pm

Norm, (and anyone else for that matter), does anyone know what happened to the early Strangers?
I know that Jerry Ward and George French Jr. have passed away, Peaches Price lives in Tennessee, Biff had to retire from the road and is in CA, Bobby Wayne and Dennis Hromek are in Texas, Roy's retired in CA, but where's Eddie, Gene Price and Leon Copeland?
Anyone know what happened to these guys.
I know Leon Copeland and Gene still wrote songs (Wynn Stewart recorded several of Gene's numbers), and Leon had an album of his own on the Alshire label in the late 1960s. Other than that I'm clueless.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 13 Jun 2001 6:38 pm

Thanks, Norm. I never knew the details. Roy Burris and I discovered we had something in common just chatting in 8th grade gym class.

All these years one thing has been the same. Anyone who talks to or about me for any length of time is bound to hear the words "Merle Haggard".

I wear my admiration for the man and his music -- and his band

-- like a badge of honor.

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HagFan

Michael Holland · Post by **Michael Holland** » 14 Jun 2001 8:28 am

You'd have seen America from a paradise where a guy could go to a Saturday night dance and have a fist fight, go home and heal and nobody shot at nobody.

The Mothers of America have eliminated the bar business.

While I greatly respect Mr. Haggard's musical contributions I find his views repulsive. This is why people think country music is for hicks and rednecks.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 14 Jun 2001 8:34 am

I wasn't repulsed by his remarks, but like you I disagree with him on the issue.

I've never been a fighter and I think DUI/DWI should be taken seriously, although perhaps not to the extreme level MAD would have it.

Don't blame the designated driver for what DJ's and jukeboxes have done to the live music scene. Bars are still busy around my part of the country, but live music isn't what it used to be.

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HagFan

[This message was edited by Ron Page on 14 June 2001 at 09:36 AM.]

RickRichtmyer · Post by **RickRichtmyer** » 14 Jun 2001 9:55 am

Back to ET for a moment...

When I was a kid I recall seeing a movie that was sort of based on life on the road with ET and the TX Troubadors. Does anyone know anything about this film? I couldn't have been more than ten or twelve when I saw it (that would have been around 44-46 years ago) and I think the movie may have been around for a while then. I'd sure like to see it again.

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Rick Richtmyer
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