Is the Club scene as bad all over as it is in New England?

Kenneth Kotsay · Post by **Kenneth Kotsay** » 3 Apr 2001 4:33 pm

"LOCAL MUSICANS & BANDS NEED NOT APPLY"

That's what I've been told by the manager of the new C&W night club "THE ROUND UP" that opened in February here in DAVIE, Florida.

Here's how it operates, once a month on Friday & Saturday night a NASHVILLE STYLE club act or artist will be appearing. The rest of the month there will be a live DJ spinning the music from 9PM till 4AM. This new night club jams them in, it's very, very large inside, has three bars and a dance floor you can play basketball on. The other nightspot here in Broward County is DAVIE JUNCTION, which does feature live "outer area" bands that start at 11 PM Friday & Saturday night. From 9 to 11 PM it's a DJ.

Thus is the scene here in Broward County, Florida. Lots of DJs playing the neo-rock- some-what country music.

On the plus side the "ROUND UP" is loaded with tons of women, from all ages, BUT only those guys who can dance for about one hour at a time need to apply.
Most of the women are on the dance floor all night long.

KEN "THE STEELING POLICEMAN"

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 4 Apr 2001 6:58 am

Hey Myron. Maybe that did come off wrong. I don't have an ego. I guess that's my point. If a so so player such as myself can find a nitche that works, then I think it comes down to logistics i.e. pay, location, artist, etc. Are you willing to take the good with the bad in order to play? Also, maybe I really don't realize how bad the club scene is outside of Texas. I don't know what I would do if I didn't have clubs to play in. Probably quit. I am truly blessed to be in a state where people still have some freedoms like honky tonkin' till the wee hours, drinkin' and smokin' all they want to. I should enjoy these freedoms while I can, because they too will be gone someday.

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 5 Apr 2001 7:09 am

To carry on. It depends on the area of the country (or world) that you are living at (in). I've been in "Kick ass bands" and not so KAB..Different places ..different times. I've worked 8days a week and 1 day a week..different places, different situations. In the last 20 years if been many places..my choice..some were good..some better and some worse..still my choice.THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between NYC,DC MIAMI,New England, and Appalachia.For some people..thier particular area is a hot bed for bands, music, and WORK..others are in a depressed state..For those who have the ability to search and go to those HOT BEDs ,that's great..but some just don't have the choice or the oportunity to do so. It's very true that some of the more"elder statesmen of the Pedal Steel are now working the PSG Shows because the New Nashville has let them out to the pasture .so to speak..My post just touched on the realities of demographics and economics. There IS a VERY distinct difference in the Country Music/band/PSG oportunities.depending on WHERE YOU ARE...and it is not always easy to change locations/venues
Grouchy

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 5 Apr 2001 7:26 am

There seems to be a steel show every week SOMEWHERE in this country. If there is enough interest to support these, there's gotta be a way to parlay that into PAYING gigs (for others besides the headliner bignames)

just a thought and a half baked one at that.

Bob H., call me next time you got a gig you got to turn down.
maybe I can make it.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Apr 2001 7:46 am

Steelmen are about the only ones who are evident at steel shows, Dave. At least, that's what I've always found! To fill up any kind of venue with non-players would be rare...if the steel was the featured instrument in the show.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 5 Apr 2001 9:34 am

There does seem to be a lot of Steel shows lately. And, talking to some of the show promoters/backers all except one said that they lost money on the shows (really losing not just saying they lost money. One told me the admission sales did not cover the show and if it wasn't for outside corporate backing (a radio station) they could not do it. With the realities of $$ it surprises me there are that many shows.

And Bob is right about the locality dictating the number of jobs available and the amount of pay.

Here's another irony. A drummer friend who also does DJ work (and is busy). He says he can go to a club or whatever and they will not hire a live band for $300 (rock, country or whatever) but he can go in and they will hire a DJ for $300!!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Apr 2001 1:23 pm

I never saw a DJ yet that bought more drinks than a 5-piece band! Sounds like a poor excuse for a clubowner, to me anyway.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 5 Apr 2001 2:14 pm

I never saw a DJ yet that bought more drinks than a 5-piece band!

Especially when the club charges the band full price. I thought the idea of having a band was for them to make the club money, not to make money from the band.

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 6 Apr 2001 5:18 am

I believe that we're going thru a cultural revolution at the grass-roots level. I've also seen the demise of the club scene up here in western Canada, paralleling the U.S. I've had mixed emotions about it, as I've also experienced bad burnouts in clubs. Although I've realized over the years that my forte exists in studio and concert situations, there's never been enough of that market to keep alive (I'm a full-timer). I do tend towards trad. country but have no qualms about steelers that can fit into new stuff. My situation now with my weekend jam band pays better and has better conditions than most nite gigs, so I can afford to turn them down, for the first time in 30 years. Also, with my studio, I'm finally in charge of the environment that I've always felt comfortable in. I think young up-an-coming players just have to be more imaginative in getting and creating new gigs, like Bob said. We always default to the bars as the be-all-and-end-all. There's so much more out there. People still want to be entertained, just not always in a bar.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 6 Apr 2001 6:01 am

All of this is well and good, but new players have to have somewhere to start and "learn the trade". They can't start out in a band that is the opening act or a touring band, etc. There has to be a place to begin and many have started out that way. It may be a "dive" and the band may be crappy but it's how many of us got our first band job. There are those that never advance past the crummy bars or their talent is limited and they never really go to the next level, and then there are those whose talents let them go on to better venues and better bands.

Used to be, years ago, that you go go into a city and there were a couple of "clubs" that had sitdown bands that played 5 or 6 nights a week. Usually the top musicians in the area had those jobs. There are very few of these around anymore. As someone mentioned some parts of the country this may still be a viable entity but in many others it's been forced out, and the increased DUI laws and enforcement has had a lot to do with it, beside the DJ's, Karaoke, etc.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 6 Apr 2001 1:51 pm

I too negotiated a few bars years ago for the band to have free drinks,However you always get those that can't distinguish between a job and a party..Not being a Pedal steel player I am one who always and still do believe that Country Music and the Steel guitar are a perfect marriage.After mc-ing several steel shows and traveling to St. Louis and Scotty's gig nothing could ever change my mind..It is great that others can jump into the new and be satisfied with it,It's also great that others are trying to set new standards for the guitar..Until they match what the steel has done in the past there will always be criticism.I certainly miss the exposed steel in intros and rides and outtros and find it hard accepting the token fills now being recorded. JMOHO.

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CJC

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Apr 2001 6:32 am

Well said, Joe!

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Apr 2001 10:51 am

Joe:

Until they match what the steel has done in the past there will always be criticism

It makes me feel all warm and cozy inside knowing that no matter what I acomplish musicly some old fart will say I suck

Bob

BTW: Joe, when we meet the first beer is on me !

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Apr 2001 12:53 pm

Just thought I'd throw this in. I'm off to do a gig with Peers (old farts), which consist of a drummer that is an ex road picker for Willie Nelson and several other Nashville acts, a singer that worked the road with Tommy Collins and Waylon Jennings, a lead picker that works with the Nashville acts here in Florida frequently and a bass player/singer that also does road work here in Florida.

None of them sing or play out of tune. Sorry.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Apr 2001 1:13 pm

Just so you guys know I happen to be an old fart myself (I'm in my 40's) around alot of the bands I play in.

I do my best to seek out older musicians that I can play with and learn from.

It the country curmudgeon attitude that I am refering to with the old fart thing. By the way there is nothing more depressing to me than seeing some of the young guys adopting a curmudgeon like attitude and cheating themselves out of a lot of fun playing music. It is weird how some of the newer players go straight for the bitter good old days complainer lifestyle before they have actually done anything.

Bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Apr 2001 5:09 pm

For once, let's attack the issue, not the members. Someone said there was less steel in today's recordings...that's true. This is NOT a reflection on the players, but a reflection on what the producers are doing to the songs recorded today. A lot of the "greats" are still around, but we don't hear them! That's the fault of the producers, and NOT the players.

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 7 Apr 2001 10:04 pm

I have to weigh in on this too.. Bob H and I have not always agreed on everything, but I'm squarely behind him on this one.
Donny, you're talking about pop music, which isn't in the hands of the producers, it's in the hands of the buying public, and they're as thick as two planks. That will change, as soon as pop and country get seperated again; and they will. It's inevitable.
With all this talk of foot-and-mouth disease, I hear they've passed legislation to prohibit the feeding of swill to pigs.
That's gotta help

A note on negativity in general: if the young prospective steel players are constantly bombarded with the notion that the golden age of steel guitar is over.. Kaput.. how do you guys ever expect anyone to feel the inspiration to make a new and unique statement with the instrument ?
This Chicken Little "The sky is falling" crap most definitely has a negative effect on the psyche of newbie steelers. I can tell you that for a fact, 'cause I'm one of them.
If you Chicken Little cats think you're doing any service to the instrument, or music in general, I'm here to tell you're wrong.
Buy a new record, guys, your old one's got a skip in it. It keeps saying the same thing, over and over.....
-John
p.s. Bob, you're in your 40's ? Gawd... slow down

Nice to feel like a kid.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 8 Apr 2001 4:33 am

I re-read my statements to see where I put down the ability of anyone. I believe it is harder for one to achieve the status now with what has to be played to be consided commercial.Someone once said on this forum if we elect 5 or six players to the SGOF we would soon run out of (old FArts)players. what were they trying to say..I realize by attending the Steel shows there is a multitude of new talent on the horizon.I wish nothing but a chance for them to enjoy the future as we enjoyed the past.Right now this old fart enjoys shooting rounds of high seventies low 80's 4 days a week on the golf course. Ok so I shot a 90 today.they wouldn't let me keep score today.

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CJC

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 8 Apr 2001 6:32 am

Myron; Sorry I haven't checked my mail lately I just answerd you.

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CJC

Gary Lee Gimble · Post by **Gary Lee Gimble** » 8 Apr 2001 7:31 am

This thread has inspired me to take advantage of a good sale going on at the local market." Two for the price of one, LYSOL SPRAY, Spring Waterfall Scent. Buy a third can for better than half price off!"

Gary Lee

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Apr 2001 9:58 am

No, I'm NOT talking about "Pop Music"...I'm talkin' about freakin' COUNTRY MUSIC!!! You know...with the steel "showing"...like Buck Owens, Or Ernest Tubb, or Loretta Lynn, or Connie Smith used to do!!!

Even the "Country Music" today doesn't have as much steel as it used to have.

A decade or so ago, Clara Peller was everywhere saying "Where's the beef?". Now, a lot of us are saying "Where's the steel?".

Apparently, a lot of people here aren't bothered by the fact that you can go into most record stores and find far more recordings of bagpipes, or hammered dulcimer, or Pan flute, than you can find of the steel guitar.

Doesn't appear to bother them. (Bothers me, though!)

Someone else here says there are more steel shows today than ever before.

I have to agree on that...'ya know why? That's about the ONLY place you can go to hear any significant amount of steel guitar today! [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 08 April 2001 at 11:36 AM.]