Where will the pickers come from???

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 19 Feb 2001 12:56 pm

I couldn't agree more with you, retcop88 -- experience is definitely one of the keys to a great musician. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that experience is the one most important factor in developing a good musician.

On the other hand, does it really matter whether the experience is gained in a bar or at church revivals? Does it really matter whether experience results in income or not? Some of the finest bluegrass musicians around have never played in bars and most have never been able to make a living from playing their music. Still, they play, and they play good.

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 19 Feb 2001 1:10 pm

I would think if they are using copywrited material and the club they are playing in has not subcribed to either ascap or BmI then legally they can be sued,if enforced by those two organizations.

And who is paying those ASCAP or BMI royalties when the LIVE band is working in the bar?????

Jack is 100% correct. The publishing company generally owns the copyright (not copywrite -- the RIGHTs to copy or perform a song belonging to the owner) and ASCAP or BMI enforces the intellectual property (SONGS) of the songwriters and publishing companies.

Why is it such a sin for a DJ to play someone's record without paying royalties to the owner of the song but it's fine for a band to perform that same song live?

Not sure I understand the difference -- unless the live band is playing ALL ORIGINAL MATERIAL.
I don't care for DJs or Karaoke in bars that used to have live entertainment either, but the copyright laws are essentially the same for live bands as for DJs. Many of us (my bands included) get away with it. Be careful where you cast stones -- some could come right back at 'cha (and they'll be thrown by those guys and gals from the Songwriter's Forum

)

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 19 February 2001 at 01:21 PM.]

Tom Olson · Post by **Tom Olson** » 19 Feb 2001 3:41 pm

Copyrights -- the owners of the copyright generally has the right to prevent someone from performing a song of which they own the copyright, and/or taking any monies earned from the performance of such copyrighted songs.

Normally, it's not worth the hassle for the copyright owners to enforce every little infringement. However, sometimes they will choose to make an example out of some little guy who's infringing on their copyright, even if it doesn't result in making a net gain.

Another thing to remember about copyrights is that infringers are also liable for criminal penalties in some instances.

By the way, it doesn't matter if the performance of a song is done for profit or not for profit. An unauthorized performance is an anauthorized performance. [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 19 February 2001 at 03:43 PM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 20 Feb 2001 8:07 am

I'm a bit surprised that a former police officer would think that the law is a matter of opinion.

Is it only against the law if I GET CAUGHT robbing that liquor store?

LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 20 February 2001 at 08:09 AM.]

Drew Covington · Post by **Drew Covington** » 21 Feb 2001 9:00 pm

I play fiddle in the band at the Long Hollow Jamboree that Mr. Erb mentioned in one of his posts. The very first time I ever played with a band was right there at the LHJ six years ago when I was fifteen. I worked with that band for about a year and a half until they let us all go so they could replace us with that dreaded karaoke (is that how you spell it?) When that band hired me, they handed me a stack of records including Ray Price's first twelve Columbia albums and several Johnny Bush albums and told me to go learn how to play that material. That material was basically all we played. I'm so grateful for having had the opportunity to learn to play true country music. Now I'm back at the LHJ playing with a different band that includes the great Jim Murphy on steel guitar. We are doing a lot of the same 4/4 shuffles we did before, and we are throwing in some western swing and jazz, so now I'm learning those styles. At the ripe old age of 21, I'd rather go play 4/4 shuffles and western swing at the LHJ than to play Top 40 country any day of the week. I think traditional country music will survive for no other reason than that it is a truly great form of music, and I hope I can be a part of helping it do just that.

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 22 Feb 2001 4:34 pm

And Drew,you are one fine fiddle player and I'm glad to see young players like you keeping up the tradition.I have really enjoyed sitting in with you guys and it is helping me get my chops in shape after not playing pro for 15 yrs.I'm tryin'.

Drew please call me by my first name.I may be 54 yrs.old but I'm not an old man.

[This message was edited by Earl Erb on 22 February 2001 at 05:03 PM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 23 Feb 2001 3:51 am

I dunno Earl? 54 seems like old to me,but compared to Smiley I guess were both still kids.

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CJC

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 23 Feb 2001 5:26 am

They are around and will be around but who wants them??The commercial trash thats popular on tv and the radio is the way it is but real hard core Hank Williams country is out there.Maybe the best country is in a joint somewhere in some small town in Alabama.We may never hear it.Some of the best were never known except in a run down red neck club.So keep playing if Nashville never listens.Who are they anyway?

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 23 Feb 2001 7:20 am

I dropped out from playing for about 15 years, and then coming back learned from hard experience what it's like to not "keep up" with the trend if you want to keep working... In coming back the first thing I had to do was forget my "hybrid" pedal set-ups and learn from scratch to play the E9 tuning. The people "hiring" didn't want to hear what I was doing because it didn't "sound like the stuff being played on he radio". But I was successful in accomplishing that and today I feel like one of the luckiest players around to actually be playing "more" that I'd really like to.

On my current job in a theater setting, I get to alternate nights doing traditional western-swing, with nights of country from the era of Patsy Cline all the way to the Dixie Chicks. The variety and the young age of the performers keeps this "mature" player on his toes I can tell you.....but I love it, and I'll keep on doing it as long as the work is available. Gene Jones www.genejones.com

jlsmith48 · Post by **jlsmith48** » 6 Mar 2001 3:27 pm

I've played steel around here in in N. Oklahoma for over 30 years. I've tried the road;didn't like it. I have always stayed as busy as I wanted to be. There were slack years; like the 70s,but overall Ive ALWAYS had a good pickin job. Its nice to be a big fish in a little pond.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 6 Mar 2001 4:42 pm

You probably make a better living than the guya in the big ponds.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 7 Mar 2001 3:12 am

Thanks for all of the response to this thread.

Also I have a burning question.
Where has the Hendersonville Flash been lately??

Smiley has been pretty quiet on this subject, could it be that he is a Karaoke singer in disquise as a steeler?

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JCF [This message was edited by John Floyd on 07 March 2001 at 03:35 AM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 7 Mar 2001 11:48 am

John you must mean the Hendersonville flasher,well he's been very busy lately getting ready for Dallas. He has an extra pair of shorts this year so he wont have to be in those old ones three days....

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CJC

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 7 Mar 2001 11:50 am

Oh No, not the ones with the brown streak in the back

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JCF (The Picker formerly known as Sleepy John)

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 07 March 2001 at 11:53 AM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 7 Mar 2001 11:57 am

Naw he blew those out months ago.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 7 Mar 2001 12:01 pm

NEW SHORTS??????

He is really serious!!!

Think Texas is ready for the shorts????

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JCF (The Picker formerly known as Sleepy John)
[This message was edited by John Floyd on 07 March 2001 at 12:07 PM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 7 Mar 2001 12:10 pm

he bought them used.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 7 Mar 2001 12:21 pm

read the following News Report!

Smiley reported to come out of the Closet soon

Will confess that he has been a Karaoke singer in Sailor Bars in Sasebo Japan for years While maintaining his other identity as a famous Nashburg Steeler[This message was edited by John Floyd on 07 March 2001 at 12:26 PM.]

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 7 Mar 2001 12:30 pm

Now I would never accuse Smiley of being a singer,although he can sing two songs. He usually does one of them first

Somethings fishy here and it ain't sushi.or her sister.

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 07 March 2001 at 12:52 PM.]

Bob Hayes · Post by **Bob Hayes** » 8 Mar 2001 4:21 am

I'm New to this part of the forum, but her's my 2 cents worth. My name is Peter Pan..well not realy but I have that syndrom.at (pushing 61) I'm still a young kid. Live music and live music gigs are few and far between..Some or most of the jobs I've had are still paying the same that was paid in the ancient ages of the '60's and '70's. Some time's we have to PLAY for the DOOR..and the door is getting mighty skinny. A lot of people don't GO OUT any more..I used to play 6/7 nights aweek..Now I'm lucky to have a couple of times a month. I'm guilty of trying to keep up with What's going on .top 40 country..means playing new ,old ,rock, and slammin southern rock. I've tried to keep up..had some good bands..and some not worth remembering..I sometimes keep playing..and some times saught after....because I could keep up with the comercial stuff..but did I keep up as a REAL STEEL PLAYER...I think not..My attention to technique..and exucution..suffered..I can fool the public and the "not knowledgable about steel playing people"..but not the real pickers and my self..I am humbley in awe of those pickers who actually study the steel..and practice and perfect thier technique. I have met a lot of them recently and have had the humble privelage of hosting some of them at a Pedal Steel event. After so many years of "trying to play PS and actually getting by"..I find myself wondering how I kept going in the cover bands with out perfecting my style..and attack.. Thank god it's not too late for me...I did learn in the smokey bars and clubs..I was part of that..I learned a lot of the P Franklin licks..I learned all of GS,AJ, RP.GJ...got the chords and melodies anyway..Travis T and R Travis..Eagles,Alman Bros,ZZtop,Nwe Riders,Pure Prarie,LynordSkinard..etc..etc.
But I DIDN'T GET the J Hughey,Loyd G, Herbey,Emmons,Craford,Hal R ,TW.and countless others..styles.licks,method,,etc,etc,etc..
I feel like an ameture..IS IT TOO late for these old bones..after all I'm too young to be this da---d old. My fingers can still move..but are a little stiff..am I feeling sorry for myself?..yes!..I try and I try..but I can't get it!!..and I don't want to fade away....does this make any sence.. There are not that many places to play any more...although I have found one..and I'm still up to my old tricks of coning them because I KNOW all of the songs...chords ..etc...and I can get by....
I'm missing something...recently..I was in the midst of some incredible pickers..after the event..some people came up to me and said HOW MUCH they enjoyed my playing and thought that I was one of the best on the program..Some of the people were at a mature age..and may have fell asleep during the event..was my thought.. I was appreciative..but perplexed....WERE WE IN THE SAME ROOM?....I couldn't even carry the guitar cases of some of these pickers..I was not even close to being in the same league!..Yet..those observers thought that I was. I watched my self on vidio...and gagged......The only thing I can do is Practice ,practice..and learn from the forum.
Thanks Bob for letting me ramble....Any suggestions?
Bob the GrouchyVet