5/4 time sig

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 25 Feb 2001 6:10 pm

Any of you Jazz players care to offer some examples of music [songs] that uses this meter? I hear it is used in Jazz sometimes and maybe some other styles. Researching the subject, I found some snippets of this and other uneven time meters, but no practical applications. I don't have a specific need for the info, just trying to expand my musical knowledge. Since some Western Swing has a Jazz feel, I'm wondering if it is ever used in that or Big Band Music.
Thanks in advance for your response.

[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 25 February 2001 at 06:57 PM.]

Earl Erb · Post by **Earl Erb** » 25 Feb 2001 6:25 pm

Stan Getz...Take Five.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 25 Feb 2001 6:33 pm

Never heard it in western swing, but what do I know. Hmmmmm. 1 2 3 1 2, 1 2 3 1 2....
Hard to fit Big balls in that beat.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 25 Feb 2001 6:50 pm

The theme from Mission Impossible is in 5/4.

So is one of the hit songs from Jesus Christ Superstar. I think it's called "Everythihg's Allright," but I'm not sure.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 25 Feb 2001 7:19 pm

Thanx Earl and Mike. I understand it better now. I'm certaintly familiar with all those tunes. It'll make it easier if I ever get the opportunity to play anything in that meter

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 26 Feb 2001 12:09 am

My favorite is "Anyone who had a Heart"! Like alot of Burt Bacharach songs, there's more than one time signature....but most of it's in 5/4

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 26 Feb 2001 1:57 pm

Some tunes written in standard time(s) adapt well to 5/4 too.
My favourite version of "Secret Love" is by Monty Alexander, he does the verses in 5/4 and the bridge in 4/4.
Verrrry interesting.
I also have a Bobby Enriquez record on which he plays "Groovin' High" in 5/4. It's kinda wierd.
-John

Dennis Scoville · Post by **Dennis Scoville** » 26 Feb 2001 3:52 pm

Anybody remember Mason Williams?

He wrote a song about a guy who was a really great dancer. The guy was very sad because he couldn't find a dance partner that could keep up with him. Finally he met this woman who could match him out on the dance floor.

At the end of the song Mason Williams revealed the secret to the woman's dancing ability; she had three legs.

And of course, the song was in 5/4 time.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 26 Feb 2001 6:24 pm

And then there's the joke about the band working in a NYC Italian Restaurant,that was told on occation they'd have to accompany a local crime boss when he felt like singing to impress his gal.
They were told to learn "Strangers in the Night" in 5/4...

They had no choice but to follow the "strong" suggestion that they be prepared for such an event.

When the time finally came, the guy gets up onstage...and with a husky whispering voice starts singing.....

"Strangers in the !@#$%&* Night.." etc etc

Robert Williams · Post by **Robert Williams** » 26 Feb 2001 8:31 pm

Dave Brubeck wrote "Take Five" and recorded it with Paul Desmond on Alto Sax and of course it was 5/4 time. It's an easy listen when they do it but it's a real challenge, at least to a country boy.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 26 Feb 2001 9:41 pm

Take 5 was actually written by Paul Desmond, not Dave Brubeck. The Dave Brubeck Quartet, (of which Desmond was a member,) had the hit, which is where the confusion comes from, but Paul Desmond wrote the song.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 27 Feb 2001 7:46 am

* [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 01 May 2002 at 05:01 PM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 27 Feb 2001 8:15 am

Here's a quote from Desmond on the origin of Take Five ...

"At the time I really thought it was kind of a throw-away. I was ready to trade the entire rights, lifetime-wise of "Take Five" for a used Ronson electric razor. And the thing that makes "Take Five" work is the bridge, which we almost didn't use. We really came within ... I shudder to think how close we came to not using that, because I said "Well I got this theme that we could use for a middle part". And Dave said, "Well let's run it through." And that's what made "Take Five". - Paul Desmond

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 27 Feb 2001 9:19 am

In another thread I mentioned the band Pentangle. The do a tune called "Light Flight" where the introduction and mid section is 6/4 time and the verses alternate between 5/4 and 7/4, changing every measure.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 27 Feb 2001 10:35 am

Don't forget about the other great Brubeck tune "Blue Rondo A La Turk" in 9/8. The thing about writing or playing these odd time signatures is you can't force them.I've heard guys try to contrive tunes to odd time signatures but the tune has to WANT to be in 5/4 - if you know what I mean.Maybe it's because I've heard "Take Five" all my life but the rhythmic flow of that tune seems perfectly natural to me.BTW,I use the first 12 notes of the head as a "Quote" sometimes when I'm soloing in other tunes. -MJ-

Post by **b0b** » 27 Feb 2001 10:58 am

Here's an mp3 file of a song in 5/4 that I wrote about 10 years ago. Warning - it's big (about 2 MB), and it's wierd! It's called "Around Five", and it's from an electronic album called "The Technical Academy Plays -b0b-".

------------------
<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/Averybob.gif" width=64 height=81>
 -b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
-System Administrator

Recluse · Post by **Recluse** » 27 Feb 2001 2:10 pm

Brubeck did two albums,"Time Out" and "Time Further Out" which were both studies on unusual time signatures. The pieces mentioned above are in one of the two. 5/4 is just the beginning. MJ is right. These things can't be forced and in these two records the time dosn't seem at all odd till you really pay attention and try to count. I think they are both re-issued on cd.
My problem is the brain is 4/4 and the hands are 5/4 and the feet are 5/3! Oh well.

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 28 Feb 2001 7:23 am

And of course, there's the second movement of Tschaikovsky's 6th symphony. You can find a sort of cheesy midi version of it here: http://www.prs.net/tchai.html But it's the "Pathetique" in B minor, an easy one to find. Pretty cello melody. [This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 28 February 2001 at 07:27 AM.]

Tim Rowley · Post by **Tim Rowley** » 28 Feb 2001 9:21 pm

The Allman Brothers tune "Whipping Post" incorporates a couple of 5/8 measures in the opening vamp and the turnarounds, like this: 6/8 measure, 5/8 measure, 6/8 measure, 5/8 measure. I learned this tune on electric guitar, by ear, back around 1971 or 1972. You gotta be drunk to dance to it. The only other band I ever heard do this number just played the whole thing in 6/8 time, vamps and all. Easier that way, people can dance to it, the crowd don't know the difference anyway, right?

Tim R.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 3 Mar 2001 6:54 am

Thanks for all the info and links guys. I listened to them with much interest.
b0b, 'tho your composition may not be mainstream, I don't think it's weird. It's great to have such a variety of musical styles and interests to draw from. JO

Sam Marshall · Post by **Sam Marshall** » 3 Mar 2001 7:06 am

My band does "Whippin' Post" with that section in 11/8. That's 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2, repeat. The keyboard player brought it in off of some Zappa album where Stevie Vai does the guitar work. Now I ain't no Stevie Vai, but I try to improvise over the time and I have been successful (sometimes). My trick so far has been to play eighth notes and count every 1-2.

Our keyboardist sings this thing unbelievably, so the audience doesn't have a clue that we're up to something.

Regards,
Sam

RON PRESTON · Post by **RON PRESTON** » 6 Mar 2001 7:05 pm

Jerry, good to see you on this thread. Long time no see or hear. Still playing that serria-12? Tell everybody in Kentucky I said 'HI' for me,OK? Give me a shout sometime. I'm always either reading or responding either here on off topic, or over where the SANE FOLKS are. LOL
Take care, & keep playing that beutiful steel.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 13 Mar 2001 12:27 pm

I've played with a lot of guys who are geniuses at 5/4 time! Only
unintentional...ya have to follow them around the corners when playing rhythm guitar ! Sometimes they even go into 6/4 and 7/4.