What Is So Bad About Modern Country?
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Terry in H-town
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Roger Rettig
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I guess this thread is about musical preferences, but there's also a constant plea from Forumites for the steel to be accepted in a wider musical field than has hitherto been it's accepted background...
I feel like a lone voice here, but (for example) I just LOVED what Paul Franklin played on Faith Hill's 'Let Me Let Go' (with Vince Gill) not so long ago.
Is this country? Not with those 'changes' - but what a lovely piece of work! The steel part was much more than just chord 'pads' - it was almost orchestration on its own...(great job, Paul!)
I LOVE Hag, George and Owens ('though I don't go back much farther than that) and I feel as strongly as anyone about some of the brainless 'dance-oriented' songs in the charts, but when a pianist like Matt Rollins starts working his magic on a track with some chords in it, it thrills me to hear our favourite instrument in such a setting....
Long may it thrive.
I feel like a lone voice here, but (for example) I just LOVED what Paul Franklin played on Faith Hill's 'Let Me Let Go' (with Vince Gill) not so long ago.
Is this country? Not with those 'changes' - but what a lovely piece of work! The steel part was much more than just chord 'pads' - it was almost orchestration on its own...(great job, Paul!)
I LOVE Hag, George and Owens ('though I don't go back much farther than that) and I feel as strongly as anyone about some of the brainless 'dance-oriented' songs in the charts, but when a pianist like Matt Rollins starts working his magic on a track with some chords in it, it thrills me to hear our favourite instrument in such a setting....
Long may it thrive.
Once again, I'm glad to see the opinions here. Here's my take on the whole situation:
If the modern work is done by someone who has an appreciaiton for the past, then I will listen to it. in that regard, I like Alan Jackson, Clint Black, Brad Paisley, Suzy Bogguss and George Strait. But it does seem as though the minute an aspiring artist shows any sign of monetary success, he/she is pressured into making "crossover" types of songs that in the end risk overexposure and alienation by the original fan base. I see this happening with Shania Twain, Faith Hill and Martina McBride (Garth goes without saying). Or it could be that today's artists don't want to be tradtion-
bound and want to reach out beyond country. I can't speculate on that part.
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Ron Plichta, former headbanger and PSG player in training.
MSA Classic S-10
Fender '62 Reissue Stratocaster
Fender Telecaster
Paul Reed Smith CE24 Maple Top
Rivera R100
If the modern work is done by someone who has an appreciaiton for the past, then I will listen to it. in that regard, I like Alan Jackson, Clint Black, Brad Paisley, Suzy Bogguss and George Strait. But it does seem as though the minute an aspiring artist shows any sign of monetary success, he/she is pressured into making "crossover" types of songs that in the end risk overexposure and alienation by the original fan base. I see this happening with Shania Twain, Faith Hill and Martina McBride (Garth goes without saying). Or it could be that today's artists don't want to be tradtion-
bound and want to reach out beyond country. I can't speculate on that part.
------------------
Ron Plichta, former headbanger and PSG player in training.
MSA Classic S-10
Fender '62 Reissue Stratocaster
Fender Telecaster
Paul Reed Smith CE24 Maple Top
Rivera R100
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Theresa Galbraith
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- Location: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
Well after posts by Alan and a few others, it hardly seems worth adding my two cents worth.
Interestingly enough I had never thought of the position of someone converting to country today and what their taste would be.
All I know is my sister who digs Creedence clearwater Revival and lost of bad pop (Kylie Mynogue!)etc, but she really likes a bit of Shania.
To me it's a simple process in music which tends to kill a genre.
Take an artist or style that becomes widely accepted or popular. This group or artist is emulated by like minded groups (some actually evolved in a similar process), while the rest are into the style as they like it, or they can see money in it.
Now record companies are willing to try anything that won't erode their power base. So they see this group and think.
Well if we clean it up a bit we can make a lot of hits out of it..get that guy Garth and we'll clean him up a bit.
At a point a style of music that becomes part of this process becomes cloned, recloned and recycled and all the catchy bits get exaggerated. Until it's at the point where the original is eclipsed.
That's what happened with the whole Urban Country thing, it got so slick and shiny.
That stayed with the industry, guys like Tony Brown who started with Rodney Crowell and Emmylou Harris got great deals and became A&R men. Now these guys were fine, but something changed.
In some ways the older A&R men were like, well I dunno about this urban cowboy thing, we'll sign a couple and see what happens.
When the younger guys come in, I see a scenario more like this:
Young Hip A&R Guy speaks "no we won't be signing them, we cant afford to take too much of a chance when we can train up someone inhouse. Listen I know what I'm talking about i was out there and it's not what the people want"
Okay I'm wandering now, but to me it's fairly basic. The whole Urban thing set up an interesting scenario, country music had mass acceptance, at least for a while.
Nowe things changed and sure the industry got a little rootsy in the late 1980s, but pleanty or artist sank in that period.
Plenty of talented people who sang on the same stages as Dwight Yokam did not sell at all.
The industry really had a problem, it had a generation of label execs who could remember the cross-over period, from Dolly and Kenny in the 1970s to the whole Urban thing.
So when someone like Shania starts hitting with rock production stylings. Everytone starts to freak out. They start going through their rosters looking for someone to mould in that style, while some of the more established artists, some like Reba who have done a little pop action before are on this like flies on..well you know.
Before long everyone is sweating bullets as others artists are charting, well no problem we'll just get out marketing guys, the dance choreographer that Maddona fired ten years ago, add some top #40 keyboard samples that have a slight 1980s vibe so we can placate the new fans with some nostalgic sounds from their pop childhood.
Let's make some product.
The above is a cynical recreation, the names have not been changed and no-one is innocent, they're just trying to make a buck.
It's just a case of simplifying and refining a genere. It's been happening in pop music for a real long time. and every time there's an unexpected abberation like punk (1970s), New Wave (1980s) or grunge (1990s), not long after there's a hundred bands who are trying a slicker version, which in turn are bought in the truckload, then inspire another load of copysits and so on.
That's why the pop charts are full of blonde singers and boy and crap girl groups who all dance and have the same haircut.
That's why there about a zillion bands that sound like a very slick version of an Orange County Ska Punk band and there's plenty in the charts with record deals and limos, etc while they're up on stage acting like they are punker than thou!
The blues is kind of adrift at the moment, it's not too commercial so it's simmering along quite nicely, despite Robert Crays attempts to bore us to death with it in the 1980s it has survived and indeed can be bought in various subgenres.
Soul music and R&B, well what they call soul music and R&B is so slick and far from the original roots music. I do not call myself a sould music fan due to the fact that I hate the modern slick version, I find it souless and totally orientated to the top #40 pop charts.
Perhaps someone can think of another type of great all American music.. you know it used to be country, now it's Modern Country.
Modern Country is like modern R&B, it's going to sell and is so refined and scrubbed that it's lost it's good taste. Now it's kind of bland, sure you can a little buzz out of it, but how long can you live on McDonalds product before your body rejects it.
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The future ain't what it used to be
Interestingly enough I had never thought of the position of someone converting to country today and what their taste would be.
All I know is my sister who digs Creedence clearwater Revival and lost of bad pop (Kylie Mynogue!)etc, but she really likes a bit of Shania.
To me it's a simple process in music which tends to kill a genre.
Take an artist or style that becomes widely accepted or popular. This group or artist is emulated by like minded groups (some actually evolved in a similar process), while the rest are into the style as they like it, or they can see money in it.
Now record companies are willing to try anything that won't erode their power base. So they see this group and think.
Well if we clean it up a bit we can make a lot of hits out of it..get that guy Garth and we'll clean him up a bit.
At a point a style of music that becomes part of this process becomes cloned, recloned and recycled and all the catchy bits get exaggerated. Until it's at the point where the original is eclipsed.
That's what happened with the whole Urban Country thing, it got so slick and shiny.
That stayed with the industry, guys like Tony Brown who started with Rodney Crowell and Emmylou Harris got great deals and became A&R men. Now these guys were fine, but something changed.
In some ways the older A&R men were like, well I dunno about this urban cowboy thing, we'll sign a couple and see what happens.
When the younger guys come in, I see a scenario more like this:
Young Hip A&R Guy speaks "no we won't be signing them, we cant afford to take too much of a chance when we can train up someone inhouse. Listen I know what I'm talking about i was out there and it's not what the people want"
Okay I'm wandering now, but to me it's fairly basic. The whole Urban thing set up an interesting scenario, country music had mass acceptance, at least for a while.
Nowe things changed and sure the industry got a little rootsy in the late 1980s, but pleanty or artist sank in that period.
Plenty of talented people who sang on the same stages as Dwight Yokam did not sell at all.
The industry really had a problem, it had a generation of label execs who could remember the cross-over period, from Dolly and Kenny in the 1970s to the whole Urban thing.
So when someone like Shania starts hitting with rock production stylings. Everytone starts to freak out. They start going through their rosters looking for someone to mould in that style, while some of the more established artists, some like Reba who have done a little pop action before are on this like flies on..well you know.
Before long everyone is sweating bullets as others artists are charting, well no problem we'll just get out marketing guys, the dance choreographer that Maddona fired ten years ago, add some top #40 keyboard samples that have a slight 1980s vibe so we can placate the new fans with some nostalgic sounds from their pop childhood.
Let's make some product.
The above is a cynical recreation, the names have not been changed and no-one is innocent, they're just trying to make a buck.
It's just a case of simplifying and refining a genere. It's been happening in pop music for a real long time. and every time there's an unexpected abberation like punk (1970s), New Wave (1980s) or grunge (1990s), not long after there's a hundred bands who are trying a slicker version, which in turn are bought in the truckload, then inspire another load of copysits and so on.
That's why the pop charts are full of blonde singers and boy and crap girl groups who all dance and have the same haircut.
That's why there about a zillion bands that sound like a very slick version of an Orange County Ska Punk band and there's plenty in the charts with record deals and limos, etc while they're up on stage acting like they are punker than thou!
The blues is kind of adrift at the moment, it's not too commercial so it's simmering along quite nicely, despite Robert Crays attempts to bore us to death with it in the 1980s it has survived and indeed can be bought in various subgenres.
Soul music and R&B, well what they call soul music and R&B is so slick and far from the original roots music. I do not call myself a sould music fan due to the fact that I hate the modern slick version, I find it souless and totally orientated to the top #40 pop charts.
Perhaps someone can think of another type of great all American music.. you know it used to be country, now it's Modern Country.
Modern Country is like modern R&B, it's going to sell and is so refined and scrubbed that it's lost it's good taste. Now it's kind of bland, sure you can a little buzz out of it, but how long can you live on McDonalds product before your body rejects it.
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The future ain't what it used to be
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Kenny Dail
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- Location: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.
I have one more comment. Remember when Lee Anne hit the charts with the overnight success of "Blue"? What a great piece of music and a great talent. The artist was immediately the hottest thing happening so what happened...she made a record deal and was signed. Where is she today? I know she is making money touring and is still making records but she is literally lost in the sea of all the "sound alikes" of the song factories of Nashville. I bought "Blue" but I wouldn't turn my radio on to hear anything else she has recorded. The good material gets shoved into the "round file" and the public is fed the generic crap the producers and record companies want you to hear and buy. Why? Because they make more money from the material coming from their writers and publishers. That is the reason we are stuck with all the clones. So there, put that in you smipe and poke it.
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kd...and the beat goes on...
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kd...and the beat goes on...
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Johan Jansen
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Theresa Galbraith
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Donny Hinson
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I'm with you, Kenny. When LeAnn came out with that song, I really thought things might turn around. Then she went "generic", and lost all her identity and uniqueness. That the song sold is evidence that this type of music is still in demand. But often, when something "works", someone else trys to come along and "fix it".
In the sales profession, this is called "bait and switch" (get them "hooked", and then change the product). If Leann is remembered 20 years from now, it will probably be for the song "Blue".
In the sales profession, this is called "bait and switch" (get them "hooked", and then change the product). If Leann is remembered 20 years from now, it will probably be for the song "Blue".
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Theresa Galbraith
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- Location: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA
Someone made the statement above that the traditional artists are gone. That's true but their music isn't. I played steel last night in a band that played nothing but ET, Ray Price, Carl Smith etc. etc. with a lot of the old instrumentals thrown in. The crowd loved it and they weren't all older folks either. Someone also made the statement that traditional country just won't sell. How can it? DJ's won't play it. Recording studios won't record it. How do we know it won't sell? Some of old traditional country songs have been around for 50 years + and are still being performed. Name me one New Country song that people will still be singing 50 years from now.
Hi guys, uh I kind of rambled a bit before.
To summarise, there used to be a lot of home cookin' country, which started off with a strange but workable relationship with the music industry.
Now the industry totally dictatesthe music, with a few odd little breakthroughs here and there, Le Anne's 'Blue', Dwight Yokam, Boy Howdy, etc.
Now the industry is like McDonalds, I didn't grow up with country music bar a little Dueling Banjos, Dolly Parton and Glen Campbell really. It's a style of music I've come to admire, but I like natural cheese not processed stuff that's like plastic.
(Why am I always comparing music to food products?)
If modern country is all you've really heard, then your taste will discriminate along those borders. You will like certain modern country, maybe even most of it.
Personally I'm not a big fan of Chet Atkins, I respect his place in the scheme of things, but that's about it.
To summarise, there used to be a lot of home cookin' country, which started off with a strange but workable relationship with the music industry.
Now the industry totally dictatesthe music, with a few odd little breakthroughs here and there, Le Anne's 'Blue', Dwight Yokam, Boy Howdy, etc.
Now the industry is like McDonalds, I didn't grow up with country music bar a little Dueling Banjos, Dolly Parton and Glen Campbell really. It's a style of music I've come to admire, but I like natural cheese not processed stuff that's like plastic.
(Why am I always comparing music to food products?)
If modern country is all you've really heard, then your taste will discriminate along those borders. You will like certain modern country, maybe even most of it.
Personally I'm not a big fan of Chet Atkins, I respect his place in the scheme of things, but that's about it.
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Theresa Galbraith
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Theresa IS correct. A "country" station does NOT sound like a R and R station. There is SILL a little country left. I will be the last person on earth to deny that presently.
However, it is moving faster and faster away from "country" towards the melting pot of the most listened (nowadays) to music. And I think the above referenced poster will be correct in just a matter of time. Sadly I do believe this.
Walk with HIM always,
carl
However, it is moving faster and faster away from "country" towards the melting pot of the most listened (nowadays) to music. And I think the above referenced poster will be correct in just a matter of time. Sadly I do believe this.
Walk with HIM always,
carl
Boy when I am wrong I am wrong I listened to wqyk yesterday all day while I was foating around the pool.I couldn't believe my "Ears" I actually heard a Country song about an hour into it.And two hours later I heard another one.Damn how could I be so wrong? They do play Country. 
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CJC
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CJC
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Theresa Galbraith
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So much of our opinions have to do with our frame of reference. I've read mentions of country music within certain time periods such as the Urban Cowboy period or the Classic Country period of the 50s and 60s.
Now we are at the mid/late part of the NCS period and are trying to compare it to our own personal favorites.
To me, Country Music has always been easily identifiable. It's different from rock or pop even though the songs may have been recorded in the same studios with the same engineers and in many cases the same musicians. Somehow country comes out different.
This debate has raged through each of the above mentioned points in time. As you may recall Jim Reeves and Patsy Cline were comparatively pop in their day even though none of us would now deny them their country status. After all, they helped usher in the era of "The Nashville Sound". Linda Ronstad had both country and rock hits on the same albums no less, and along with The Eagles helped bring the California Country sound into the mainstream. (With a nod to their musical mentors The Byrds and Gram Parsons)
Willie and Waylon did their "Outlaw" thing in the 70s and brought in a whole new audience of southern rockers. Ronnie Milsap and Kenny Rogers did the whole over produced pop thing again the the late 70s and 80s. And so it goes.
But think back, during each decade there were memorable pockets of traditional country from the time before. The late night TV ads for Hank Williams and Boxcar Willie and Slim Whitman that ran constantly during the 70s reminded us of those classic roots. The bluegrassy sound of Ricky Scaggs in the 80s brought back the art of the 'Hot Lick'. The Western Swing tunes that George Strait and (yes even) Garth Brooks have done in the 90s pay tribute and honor that Country Music tradition as we would remember it.
Sure, it'll keep changing. Sure, we'll keep on arguing what is and what isn't but it won't matter. Country is what each of us hears it to be. So enjoy the songs you like, turn off the songs you don't and remember, Steel Guitar fits in 'em all equally well.
BD
Now we are at the mid/late part of the NCS period and are trying to compare it to our own personal favorites.
To me, Country Music has always been easily identifiable. It's different from rock or pop even though the songs may have been recorded in the same studios with the same engineers and in many cases the same musicians. Somehow country comes out different.
This debate has raged through each of the above mentioned points in time. As you may recall Jim Reeves and Patsy Cline were comparatively pop in their day even though none of us would now deny them their country status. After all, they helped usher in the era of "The Nashville Sound". Linda Ronstad had both country and rock hits on the same albums no less, and along with The Eagles helped bring the California Country sound into the mainstream. (With a nod to their musical mentors The Byrds and Gram Parsons)
Willie and Waylon did their "Outlaw" thing in the 70s and brought in a whole new audience of southern rockers. Ronnie Milsap and Kenny Rogers did the whole over produced pop thing again the the late 70s and 80s. And so it goes.
But think back, during each decade there were memorable pockets of traditional country from the time before. The late night TV ads for Hank Williams and Boxcar Willie and Slim Whitman that ran constantly during the 70s reminded us of those classic roots. The bluegrassy sound of Ricky Scaggs in the 80s brought back the art of the 'Hot Lick'. The Western Swing tunes that George Strait and (yes even) Garth Brooks have done in the 90s pay tribute and honor that Country Music tradition as we would remember it.
Sure, it'll keep changing. Sure, we'll keep on arguing what is and what isn't but it won't matter. Country is what each of us hears it to be. So enjoy the songs you like, turn off the songs you don't and remember, Steel Guitar fits in 'em all equally well.
BD
IMHO it's better, mainly because the pop/rock productions coming out of Nashville are really pretty good, whereas the 70s and 80s pop oriented productions were a joke. Try to listen to some of that crap now (listen to anything by Barbara Mandrell or Glen Campbell or Ronnie Milsap or any number of forgetable songs that they play on the 'classic' country stations now).<SMALL>Is today's country better or worse than the Urban Cowboy era of country?</SMALL>
Of course it isn't my idea of country music, but then again neither was Eddy Arnold or Jim Ed Brown.
IMHO there is plenty of great traditional country music being recorded now. It doesn't get a lot of airplay, but then again neither does blues or traditional R&B, other examples of 'fringe' music.
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www.tyacktunes.com
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KEVIN OWENS
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"Country is what each of us hears it to be."
no, no, no,no. I've heard quite a few people say things sort of like this and here are my thoughts on it.
Liberal statements like that is a major part of what's wrong with the music. You have to have certain guides to any type of music. You can't just lump it all together and call it what you will. Classic musicians are very strict in learning and playing their music and so should country players or rock players and so on. Everything can't be in the gray area and open to personal interpitation. There must be rules or guidlines or it becomes a jumbled mess.(check the CMA show for reference)
Linda Ronstad and the Eagles have nothing to do with country music. Just remember "a steel guitar can't make a hippie singer a country singer".
thanks for listen
Kevin
no, no, no,no. I've heard quite a few people say things sort of like this and here are my thoughts on it.
Liberal statements like that is a major part of what's wrong with the music. You have to have certain guides to any type of music. You can't just lump it all together and call it what you will. Classic musicians are very strict in learning and playing their music and so should country players or rock players and so on. Everything can't be in the gray area and open to personal interpitation. There must be rules or guidlines or it becomes a jumbled mess.(check the CMA show for reference)
Linda Ronstad and the Eagles have nothing to do with country music. Just remember "a steel guitar can't make a hippie singer a country singer".
thanks for listen
Kevin
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Johan Jansen
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