How can the young players develop? ...no more club circuit

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 20 Oct 2000 6:41 am

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CJC

Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 20 Oct 2000 8:51 am

Theresa, i disagree with you,if you practice wrong, you'll be perfectly wrong.Everybody has been influenced by somebody.I have been influenced by a lot of people on different instruments, and playing different styles.You have to learn licks from somebody,why not learn from the best.I know guys who can burn it up till they sit down with a band,then they don't know when to play,when not to play
(that's more important)they don't know how to listen, how to be creative,and sometimes they can't even play in time.Don't get me wrong,i don't drink and don't like drunks, but the education you get playing bars is invaluable.
I remember a few years ago a young kid was playing in a bar in Nashville,his name was Brent Mason.A lot of people learn this way,is it the best? I wouldn't know about that, but it does work.Not trying to offend anyone,just giving my opinion and being honest.Have a great day.

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Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 20 Oct 2000 9:24 am

Yes, I'm all for live performance.
But as an alternative... in today's world of computer "shut-ins"

...Band in a Box is a great tool for practice. Is anyone else using BIAB? I recently picked up BIAB #9 and I am sold totally on this program. It's very flexible and some of the patches sound great. I really like the "Merle Travis" groove under the country section. Just type in the chord changes and it will play endlessly... in any key and at any tempo.

Too bad that the newbies don't have the opportunities to play live that we had in the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

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www.dougbsteel.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 20 Oct 2000 10:03 am

There are a lot of small venues like restaurants and such where BIAB, a steel player and a vocalist can work. If the steel player sings, it can even be a solo act.

Peter Dollard · Post by **Peter Dollard** » 20 Oct 2000 7:22 pm

Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought Brent Mason was discovered relatively quickly and did not spend a long time time playing in bars when he was in Nashville. Pete.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Oct 2000 7:46 pm

I always thought I played better if I was drinking

Well, b0b, we agree on that! I also always thought you played better if you were drinking.

Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 20 Oct 2000 9:54 pm

Peter, on his video tape he says he played at the Stagecoach lounge(i think that's the name)anyway my cousin saw him there when he was very young.

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Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 21 Oct 2000 5:16 am

I thought you played better when I was drinking!

Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 21 Oct 2000 8:09 am

Peter, my apology, i must be mistaken. I assure you it was an honest one. He does say
he played at that club in Nashville, i heard that myself.My cousin must have the wrong name.Again, i apologize, have a great week-end.

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Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 21 Oct 2000 3:04 pm

When Brent Mason was playing the Stagecoach he was not a undiscovered talent at least by us other musicians.I'm trying to recall and I think it was during the week of the Oprys 62 anniversary that a great Guitar player and friend of mine took me out to hear him.His words to me were you got to hear this guy,Chet Atkins brings people in to hear him.He was right and we talked Brent into doing some scat for us...You can practice all your life and never have his gift. Brents one of the few musicians who come along in ones lifetime and immediately turns your head in disbelief.I felt the sameway the same year listening to Paul Franklin sitting in at Gabes.My Steel player Jim Roule had come down with me and that particular night he was glued to his seat as close to the bandstand as he could get.Jim Roule came to work for me when he was 14 years old until he was 20.That visit humbled him and helped him develope into a great Steel and lead player. Unfortuneately he found out he can make a thousand dollars a week as a Truck Driver,and only plays when availible.

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 22 October 2000 at 08:52 AM.]

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 21 Oct 2000 11:43 pm

A while back,someone told me that a local club (Gabe's Lounge) had gone back to Country,so I thought I'd check it out. I went down there. They had lead (fuzz) guitar, drums,bass,& keyboard.COUNTRY?? Yeah,right!! CMA. (we all know what that stands for,today)

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Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 22 Oct 2000 6:32 am

Terry,
You are correct. Brent worked the Stagecoach Lounge atleast 1 to 1 1/2years before he started doing sessions. That's how he got heard by producers and how he broke into sessions. And yes, working bars or other venues are always the best experiences in learning how to work with other musicians!
Keep practicing! Theresa[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 22 October 2000 at 08:11 AM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 22 Oct 2000 7:41 am

The woodshed and the stage... I think you need both for ability to grow. As a neophile steeler, all I can do is practice in my little sound room at home and only every few months jam with other regional steelers - I have noother steel outlets. At home I'm slowly developing the technical stuff, like picking and blocking. And there's no way I could pick and palm block as I do (even though it's still very amateurish) without rote drilling at home. But I also know that I'm missing the critical element of inspiration wrought by playing with a band, in front of an interested and enthusiastic audience. I've picked up "new" instruments before (such as bass) and found solo practicing was important, but I never would actually step out musicially or find the wherewithall to really try to jump in and swim with the instrument until I was with a band in front of a crowd. It constitutes an "enabling" experience. There, I'd try new stuff on the fly, scales (etc) I'd learned previously would take on new meaning and I could graft them in better with other licks and tricks, and I'd have an energy and enthusiasm for playing and growing which I just could not muster sitting at home with headphones on and a CD or BIAB (or some equivalent) playing away unvaryingly. I would also grow from the interchange with the other band members - constructive criticism, well placed compliments, group enthusiasm (you know that feeling you get when everybodt just NAILS a song!).

Woodshedding is like setting up the pedistal, canvas, and the oil paints. Live playing is where the paint hits the canvas. I love it, and I miss it.

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Bill (steel player impersonator) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My online music | Forum birthdays

John Lacey · Post by **John Lacey** » 22 Oct 2000 7:49 am

I've seen the gamut of gigs over the last 30 years of my steel life, bars, concerts, recording sessions, fair dates and so on. The bar scene has had mixed results on my playing, it certainly tightens up the chops by offering a night after night workout, but some of the emotional and physical damage that occurs can be deadly. It's easy to get sidelined into booze and drugs as the focus is not on music in most bars, we are liqour agents. Once one requites that fact, you can settle down and just play. There definitely is burnout potential, God knows I've been there. I wish I had the tools to learn when I started that are available today, namely Band in a Box and great instructional tabs and Cd's. I would recommend for a young player to get an interesting day job and play weekends as the 6 nite a week thing is gone. On the other hand, if you're a stone-cold music junkie, there's avenues to make money in the business outside of bars. If you really care about music the bars will suck the life out of you if you're not careful. Think creatively and come up with new venues to play. It's only limited to you're imagination and motivation.

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 22 Oct 2000 8:04 am

One thing I forgot to mention -- the bands I've been in over the past couple of decades were mostly church bands, so whatever downsides the bar scene might have weren't part of it.... [This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 22 October 2000 at 09:50 AM.]

Terry Williams · Post by **Terry Williams** » 22 Oct 2000 11:33 am

Theresa. thank you your polite reply,i don't know why people can't disagree and still respect one another.I also appreciate your info on Brent Mason, i thought i was losing my mind(if i had one).My Daddy always used to say,class will always be class, no matter whether it is music or people, i believe he was right,and Theresa, you're a class act.Thankfully,most of the people on this forum are,and i would like to extend a public thank you to all who have helped me in the past with your information, opinions, and support.

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Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 22 Oct 2000 3:33 pm

Hey Doug,
I feel genuine sorrow for all the young musicians out there who never experienced the bar scene. It was so wonderful it's hard to describe. I'm originally from Southern California and when I got out of the Army in June of '63 I moved to the L.A. area (Long Beach) and immediatly started hitting the clubs because that's what you did then. I found a gig in Wilmington at Hap's Lucky Spot for Sunday afternoon and Monday night for $10.00 a shift. I lived in a small trailer for $12.00 a week which included utilities. By working the Sunday jam I met other musicians and soon had weekend work also. Altogether I played full time in the clubs of L.A. from 1963 until Oct. 1985 when I moved to Virginia. I wouldn't trade that part of my life for anything! All the good times, good friends, and great music. Everyone had a gig and another to go to if that one bombed out. Never having to set an alarm clock to get up in the morning was great! Four ex-wives later I'm still pickin' although I have a good day job now, I'm glad I got to do it when I was young enough to enjoy everything that happened. There were always a couple of after hours jams to go to and even Saturday and Sunday morning jams. There was always somewhere to play with other musicians! No matter what anyone say, "One night on a bandstand is worth 6 months of practicing in your music room" and you can take that to the bank!

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 23 Oct 2000 2:52 am

Jerry ,We have had numerous threads on the old So-Cal days and you are right on. In fact there were almost more clubs than players.A lot of guys were in and out of several bands. If it wasn't for what I learned and the help and all the sitting in in Sacramento and Later LA.I wonder what I would have done otherwise?..One of the best feelings I have ever had and still is ,is when some fellow musician says those great words. "Hey Joe want to sit in"?

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 23 October 2000 at 03:55 AM.]

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 23 Oct 2000 6:33 pm

Alot of you make it sound like no ones doing bars and clubs anymore. Please music will always have a place to play!

Peter Dollard · Post by **Peter Dollard** » 24 Oct 2000 8:38 pm

A year playing in one club before you start doing sessions is a very short time but in that Brent Mason is miles ahead of most of us it was probably enough "studio" seasoning for him. And Terry ,no need for an apology, I just remembered he got famous relatively quickly and then wondered whether it was in fact true. Peter

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 25 Oct 2000 9:48 am

"Music will always have a place to play" I agree music will,Kareoke ,DJ,Jukebox..But live music and get paid for it???? That's another story/

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CJC

Gregg Galbraith · Post by **Gregg Galbraith** » 25 Oct 2000 10:32 am

Actually, Brent is miles ahead of ALL of us!
("light-years" wouldn't be much of an exaggeration.)